Air Bag Warning Light Problems Anyone (in particular Australian)?

[ozmini]

Hi,

I'm on to my 4th or 5th air bag warning light fix and I am beginning to wonder what is going on and whether there are many more in Oz that are having this issue? My last fix was just outside my extended warranty period and they charged me nearly $300 to re-wire and "fix it" for good. I parted with my money reluctantly and now 3 months later - ta-da! The bloody light is on again after just starting the car! The car goes back in again tomorrow.

(By the way, for the record, I have just 35k ticks on the clock, don't drive in dusty areas, rarely fold the front seat forward, and never put anything under either seat)

This time I have looked into this issue a bit more including on Mini2 and this appears to be quite a recurring problem especially with 02 Mini's worldwide. I have also discovered that there is an extended warranty plan of 10 years or 150k miles just announced in the USA to cover this very problem! (http://www.mini2.com/forum/faults-fi...t=airbag+light)

I have contacted my dealer (Alto BMW Artarmon) who deny any knowledge of any BMW efforts here - though they do admit the sensor light issue is common! They will of course repair my car again but have not accepted that the cost of the last fix should have been covered. I have also escalated to BMW Australia and to the Department of Transportation as a safety defect (http://dynamic.dotars.gov.au/recalls/NotifyUs.asp) to see if I can stir up some action! Given that when the light comes on your air bags are disabled, this sort of recurring problem could have serious consequences.

So, how many of you are seeing this problem, what reaction are you getting from the dealer and are you interested in putting some pressure on BMW Austalia to sort it for everyone like they have in the US? Let me know here or by private email.

Cheers

[n00b]

Usual response was check connection, er if nothing then reset the light. If it comes up again, repeat that until the 5th time..replaced wiring, nothing ever came up again. My old MC had the lights on 8 times in 10 weeks, at the end they stripped the entire car and replaced whatever wiring loom they think may have contributed it. I sold my car 6 months after that but during that 6 months, that light went off for good.

DoTaRS will not take action until they have accumulated a fair bunch of complaints and even so, they are slow given how understaffed that department is.

Tip in harassing dealers: get the work done, send them a complaint fax (at the bottom of it say cc it to MTA/MVRIA/BMW Aust) the next morning and the chances of them calling you back had been 100% they may not sound too happy or bright but at least they know they've pi55ed you off and take greater care in their repairs.

[MiniFr34k]

Not sure what i can do to help, but if you need another voice to yell at BMW im ur man

I had the Airbag light come on after about 2-3 months from buying my car from BMW Sylvannia (i got the car 2nd hand) - had it fixed under warranty and its been gone since then.

[n00b]

Wait till the tyre light and ASC/DSC lights stay up - that's worse as ASC/DSC and ABS are both OFF...

[ozmini]

I think the acceptance that there is a problem combined with the US action to cover it should compell BMW Australia to do something. I mean we are talking a significant safety system here.

In the 15 cars I have owned I don't think I ever had a seatbelt or airbag light malfunction and now I have had it 4 times... the fact that they can't sort it is another matter but it shouldn't take the storming of the Bastille for them to take corrective action to cover the cost for everyone, right?

[n00b]

In theory, yes but unfortunately it's a resounding no in reality. Take an example, rattles. In the US, it is covered as long as the car is still under warranty. Over here it is only covered for the first year as that is a statutory requirement but after that, BMW waived that obligation good bye.

If our laws are identical to the US, I think MINI Aust would've been obligated to purchase my old MC back as it would've breached the lemon laws over there.

Another example would be vehicle recalls - how many are issued in the US and how many here even though they're essentially the same cars? I think here is a fraction of the US.

What about that howling aircond? I think in the US, MINI issued a directive (it's even in their TIS) to sort out this issue but in Australia it's a case of blush it away and even admitted this is a feature of the car (to have a loud aircond?) again, it shows how likely will BMW Aust takes responsibility in their products.

If BMW/MINI Aust unwilling to take any action to rectify this problem, you could pursue this further in a number of ways but with the cost and expense involved, you might as well pay through the roof and get them to hunt down the problem. Good luck anyway.

[ozmini]

n00b, I get your drift completely. But this is a safety issue... I don't think any car company will need to see a headline that someone died because of their KNOWN defective air bag system didn't work at that time...sounds like a great current affairs or 4 Corners show? The lawsuits may not be as large here but the impact on their image and sales is what they would (should) worry about...

[dsakko]

Known airbag problem. Probably heaps of threads about it around on Mini2 somewhere.

Long and short of it, it's the connector on the seat side of the wiring loom. There have been some rumors about a recall on them (only affected early MC and MCS models up to maybe mid to late 2002????).

After a while the connector gets a little dirty, hit a bump, and the light comes on. Won't clear itself, so you need to take it in to the dealership. If it's in an accident, the system will still try to deploy it (and if you have good contact at that time it will still go off), but there is the possibility that it won't.

I've had my driver's side replaced with the newer loom, but not the passenger side. Still happens all the time. I'm a little miffed why my dealership only replaced the driver's side tho???

A good dealership will be able to tell you which side is the problem as there are separate codes for each fault.

[snoopy]

Yes I have had airbags probs, as you say it is a very common problem for the early MINI’s. Mine were fixed under warranty, and with in warranty period.

Don’t know about DOTARS and how quick they would respond to a letter of complaint, but if they are like most gov depts, (when safety is involved) The best you can hope for is they take the butt covering position of they would just fire off a request/letter to BMW to confirm the problem or not, but this might depend on how well written and how much detail was provided in the original complaint.

As for what they system does when it is in this state, I have been told it goes in to a fall back mode, which is to deploy all airbags regardless of other inputs, eg side crash, front crash (ie it is better to have all airbags go off and a large bill to repair than a law suit for them not going off and the story about them not going off is a way to get the client to bring the car in straight away, which we should do anyway)

[n00b]

By the way, ever thought about going to another dealer? A lot of the times BMW will still repair cars that are slightly out of warranty, extended or not, as a gesture of goodwill? And...haven't we heard a lot of complaints about Alto lately?

Oops I just opened a can of worm.

[ozmini]

Yes, there has been a lot about this already (which is what got me going) but not much from the Australian crowd or a resolution by BMW Australia to take it out of the hands of the hapless (sic!) dealer Service Advisers.

Whether all the air bags deploy or not is something we may never know (except in a court room) but either has the potential for injury... so either it is a problem or it is not and the way I see it, it should not matter what country you are in for BMW to take this seriously and offer to fix it at their expense.

(As for Alto, this is indeed off topic but they have overall treated me well. Their Mini knowledge and passion needs serious work however)

[n00b]

There isn't that many of us suffered this airbag issue - I *think* we might be the only ones here that suffered this issue more than once. AndrewH might be able to shed some lights on whether the airbags are deactivated when the lights is on but the service advisor, with his manager and the tech rep from BMW reassured this is the case. Make sense though, when there is something wrong with the airbag system circuitry, I am sure it's a safer thing to completely switch this all off rather than leaving it on and hope for the best.

Like I've said before, they got sick and tired of me turning up week in week out with the same issue and eventually replaced everything from wiring to sensors. It did solve the problem but even then, they can't guarantee this problem won't arise again in the distant future when the car age. Not that I'll ever find out as the buyer of my MC is no longer in Australia and it's in the hands of yet another owner that I have no contact details of.

Slightly offtopic here, ever heard about Audi and their similar problem?

To be honest, your original post sound as if you're ranting about having to pay for the work carried out which they should've done this for free due to the nature and whatnot, maybe I am wrong, but I think speaking to the service manager about it first might be a better thing than to start busting everyone else's balls about it. Even BMW Aust will not give a damn unless all avenues have been exhausted.

Try Trivett, Mark Mannings there seems to know MINI back to front...but I wouldn't say he's as friendly as he used to be some years ago.

[ozmini]

Fair comment n00b it may sound like a bit of a rant (warning, there's more coming..) but it isn't just the $300 (though if that had fixed it I probably would have stayed quiet).

I started this thread to see if there were others that experieced this problem here... to rebut the notion from the dealer that the cars here are "different" from the US. Well perhaps in some ways... but not this one?

You're right, I could spend time looking for another shop which may or may not have a better attitude... but you know, I don't think I should have to... I have a job and the need for a car to earn a living. Alto is close by and have sold and serviced the car for over 3 years and seem fair (they also consulted with head office the last time). Either BMW supports this fix through their dealers or it doesn't.

I just want the sensor fixed and think BMW ought to step up and take responsibility if it is indeed a common - safety - issue. It sounds like it is.

End of rant...

BTW, I really like my Mini, spend too much on it, am part of the Mini Club and went on TasMinia and other weekend drives, so I'm not a disgruntled owner by any means! But I can't stand the notion that American Mini owners are entitled to be treated better than us!!!

Cheers mate.

["Megan"]

You should find this interesting reading then:
http://www.alldata.com/tsb/BMW/10623...720103/37.html

And was found in this thread:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/faults-fi...tsbs-date.html

If you print out a copy to show the Service Dept, I wouldn't go telling them where you found it, as I don't think this is the kind of info they want the general public to get their hands on, and we don't want the information that is currently getting out, to dry up on us!!

I have had this problem too, and had it fixed under warranty at Alto Artarmon while some other repair work was being done. I have not had a problem with Alto Artarmon at all, and found their service centre to be really helpful.

The expression that comes to mind in relation to this 'airbag' issue, and is a part of the Trade Practices Act, is "Fit for purpose". One of the reasons we invest in buying a MINI is the safety aspects of this car. I have been told that when the airbag light is on - the system is deactivated!!! If an error is detected in the Airbag system, it shuts down to avoid any of the airbags deploying accidentally - which could be a disaster and actually cause an accident. If the Airbag System is not functioning, then you could argue that the car is "not fit for purpose" as it will not protect you in the event of an accident where Airbags should be deployed.

We had the Airbag light activated a couple of times, and within a week of having it turned off, it would go off again. It was about a month ago tthat my car was in for repair, and had the Airbag light issue rectified again. So far it hasn't gone off again - and we have moved the passenger seat back and forward many times (which in the past seemed to be what set it off). So it looks like whatever they did this time, fixed the problem.

Good luck.

[n00b]

It's not particularly hard to understand why we're like poor little cousin to Uncle Sam's kids - more consumer-friendly laws, bigger market (how does 4-5000 cars compared to over 120000?) and bigger growth over there. Possibly more factors than I could care about.

True though, you really shouldn't go out of your way to another dealership just to get it done but it's all to do with the experience. I wouldn't be surprised if Trivett have seen every major and annoying issues with MINI's and got a funny feeling the biggest whingers (myself and a few others) gets ours looked after there while the other dealers were fortunate not to have experience those sorts of gremlins first hand.

It would be nice to use TPA (that's something I hinted in my original reply...) also take into account the car wasn't just sit here and collect dust, wear and tear occurs whenever we drive our cars. Then, it wouldn't be unreasonable for a fault like this to pop up 3 years down the track. So far the only known case Aust wide to successfully using the TPA to get the manufacturer to sort things out is a Commodore.

(Correct me if I am wrong in any way...I too have thought about taking MINI Aust to court over my MC)