The New E-10 gas .. problems..

[umberto]

Josh...that was nice article in Car and Driver.....it says that the US imports 65 percent of its oil.....is there a listing someplace of what brands of gasoline, available here in massachusetts, where the gas comes from primarily domestic sources...or preferably not from middle east sources or from venzuela?

[Sweetpea77]

Hi everyone,

2004 MC
CVT

I'm a newbie at this, and just got super frustrated with my service dept b/c of recent failure to start, flashing battery light, but then starting just fine on the 2nd start.

Service rep told me it might be fixed with idle reprogram, which did help with stalling and jerky tranny, but I'm back to the seecond start issue.

Finally got service rep on the phone and she said it was gas related and told me to use mid-grade gas as opposed to premium/high octance. Searched the message boards and internet and I'm shocked at what I've read. Why hasn't a bulletin gone out to all MINI owners? Especially since my service rep told me this is 90% of what my service dept. is dealing with right now?

I have yet to try another octane gas and am especially concerned about the damage that this problem is doing to my cooper.

I'll try to keep you updated on how the coop does with different octanes/brands of gas...

Thank you Josh for the good website and link to the MINI2 thread!

[GadgetGav]

Hi Sweetpea..! Welcome.
Yes, it's pretty shocking isn't it. My service dept told me that when it was first happening and people (like Josh) were losing fuel pumps because of it, they (my local service dept) were finding a way to get the replacement done under warranty. Apparently it was happening so much that MINI USA have put a stop to that and are blaming the user for putting in 'bad gas'. When that's all we can buy, it hardly seems fair.
I had the latest ECU reprogram and it seemed to help for a while. Now I'm back to two starts or sometimes one, but it runs for several seconds like it's going to stall but finally get's itself together and revs. If I touch the gas pedal while it's harley-ing / diesel-ing, it will stall out.
A Shell station near me just reopened after a lengthy re-fit, so I knew it was brand new gas in brand new tanks. Since the only official recommendation I've had from MINI USA is to use TopTier (tm) gas, I put in Shell VPower. It doesn't help the cold start issue at all. I'll try Shell 89, although I've been told unofficially to mix between all three grades.
It's bad that this is affecting a lot of import brands, it's bad that the manufacturers can't come up with a fix, but the fact that they can't points (to my logic at least) of the problem being in the gas and therefore the blame lying at the gas companies door. I would hope that the manufacturers are putting pressure on the gas companies to make better blends, rather than just coming up with the TopTeir marketing ploy, but I think I'm hoping in vain. I dread to think what is going to happen to my fuel system this winter, just as I reach the end of my (perhaps worthless) warranty...

[jwardell]

We got a new second mini in the household and it actually startles me every time I start it, it seems to turn over instantly as soon as I turn the key. I'm used to mine which turns over several times before it starts, on a good day..and often needs the second start.

We really really really need a redesigned fuel pump that can handle this, if not from mini at least some aftermarket company.

[GBMINI]

We shouldn't confuse the fuel pump being damaged by ethanol with the "cold start" issue which is due to the engine programming being unable to cope with the fuel mixture when it's cold.

Side note: GBMINI is filled with Mobil 93 at the moment because I was not near my normal Sunoco 91 - for the FIRST TIME EVER, GBMINI stalled this morning and I had to restart.
I predict when I fill with 91 again next time, all will be well once again.

[GadgetGav]

I know we shouldn't confuse two problems, but I think they have similar symptoms. My problems started with E10 fuel and haven't been cured by ECU reprogramming. Is that a faulty fuel pump or faulty ECU..? The fact that new cars don't do it doesn't help pin it down either as they don't have a fuel pump with 40000+ miles of wear on it, but they also have different ECUs. I would guess that there are hardware and software revisions to the ECU between 2002 and 2006 that probably mean that my ECU can't run the exact same software as a new car...

[Sweetpea77]

Thanks for the welcome! I'm certainly disappointed on all aspects - MINI, Gas mfgs, ethanol blend, potential fuel pump damage. I'm not beyond giving the factory serious hell over the issue and more than willing to put my name on any petition to auto mfgs and oil co's - if there IS anything like that out there I would be more than willing to give it a go.

I'm in the middle of packing up my house and moving to Seattle, WA and the last thing I need is to worry about my freaking car - I guess there is some(??minor??) comfort in knowing that the car should start on try #2...but the last thing I need right now is the Zoolander "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills" kind of moment...or the Seinfeld "SERENITY NOW!!!"

I had serious problems with the tranny of my last piece of junk with wheels and have loved the entire MINI experience up until this point (I know they're not entirely to blame, but super peeved at how I was handled by service rep with the issue). I guess I will give the different gasolines and grades a shot, but am peeved b/c the fuel I've been using is from a new gas station (not even 6 months old) and so I wonder if it's just a new blend for the upcoming winter months and will change with seasons.

Are there any additives or treatments that might help prevent fuel pump damage? Guess when I have a minute, I'll read more of the replies on the thread. I'm sure there's much more for me to catch up on!

Totally (well, somewhat) unrelated item which I should be searching for in another thread:
Any word on a Hybrid or totally gas free MINI?

Thanks - sleep tight all...
Sweetpea

[GBMINI]

Sweetpea,
You (and your car) will be much happier if your next fill up is with 89.

We have different summer / winter formulations and they confuse the MINI engine, leading to starting issues. But this year with the ethanol change, we don't know what extra effect there will be (if any) with winter formulations.

[jwardell]

Quote: Originally Posted by GBMINI (original)

We shouldn't confuse the fuel pump being damaged by ethanol with the "cold start" issue which is due to the engine programming being unable to cope with the fuel mixture when it's cold.

I don't know about that...After the new fuel pump, I had no cold start issues for almost a month.
And the new one doesn't do it either.
I think that it does do something to the pump after a few weeks that might be small enough to affect starting, but takes much longer to sieze the pump.

[GadgetGav]

That would be my guess Josh. Something to do with seals maybe..?

[GadgetGav]

From the 'It Could Be Worse' dept...

Dozens of cars conk out after getting diesel fuel, instead of gas, from Holbrook station

I like the bit about the guy who says he's racked up repair bills of $200 on a 1985 Oldsmobile... What did he do? Buy a duplicate car to get a clean gas tank??!!

[Actual Size]

Here's NH's official take on E-10. Fortunatley it won't be used in Vermont, so I can just cross the river for our gas.

[GBMINI]

And there's the truth coming out !

Quote:

In addition a federal tax incentive for refiners and distributors exists for certain gasoline blends of ethanol, creating an industry incentive to use higher volumes of ethanol

[AprilWhine]

Quote: Originally Posted by GadgetGav (original)

From the 'It Could Be Worse' dept...

Dozens of cars conk out after getting diesel fuel, instead of gas, from Holbrook station

I like the bit about the guy who says he's racked up repair bills of $200 on a 1985 Oldsmobile... What did he do? Buy a duplicate car to get a clean gas tank??!!

And got change back.

[GadgetGav]

Well, it's official. Officially pronounced by me that is. My car hates Shell VPower. I bought it from a brand new station and from another station and all the non-starting issues came back. I put up with it until I was down to half a tank and topped off with Shell regular (from the second gas station) and it has started first time since.
When it was at it's worst with VPower it would stall as soon as I pressed the gas pedal for the first minute or so after the second start.
Give me back an old fashioned manual choke..!