The New E-10 gas .. problems..

[GBMINI]

GPMINI has been fed Shell VPower since birth, and starts first time every time - of course out in Texas, Shell VPower was only 90 or something! Maybe the mix of gas from different states shortly after birth helped it learn to be not fussy

[GadgetGav]

I think I need to go back to MOP. I'm closing in on the end of the warranty period, and even though the fuel pump won't be covered when it dies, I'd like to get as many ECU reflashes done as I can...

[GadgetGav]

Quote: Originally Posted by GBMINI (original)

of course out in Texas, Shell VPower was only 90 or something!

United States..!? Ha! Fifty loosely affiliated States more like No wonder MINI can't make a car that works everywhere when there's no consistency to what it gets fed.

[jwardell]

So will mass switch back to non-ethanol gas for the winter months as other states do? Freezing temperatures will soon be upon us so I would guess and hope soon.

[jwardell]

Just read an interesting article in November's Car & Driver (the article is not online) about Michigan's "pump police" which not only test pumps for accuracy but also take samples of the gas to test quality. They also measure the amount of water in the bottom of the underground tanks. I assume we have a similar weights & measures group in Mass, but I wonder if they do the tests as often, or if they test for quality or water. Maybe something to toss as the new candidates for govorner.

[snek]

I'm sure gas pumps (and meat counter scales) get tested for accuracy more often than the police radar or laser guns

[olYeller]

I have an 04 MCS and had a pinging problem under load. I have used 93 octane gas since our purchase. Went to MOP and the tech went for a test drive with me and heard the problem, they recommended TOP fuel and/or a switch to mid-grade. We use Shell when we can (not one in our area) and the switch to mid-grade this summer almost eliminated the problem.

Believe me, it was painful to put 89 octane gas in the car the first time, but when i had no drivability issues and the pinging dissapated, i was very happy. Now that November is here the high octane stuff should be back to a NON-ethanol concoction and i'll start putting the "good stuff" back into my MINI.

[GadgetGav]

Is it confirmed that fuel will revert to non ethanol blends in the winter..? I'd be very happy if it did, but I'm not sure I trust the gas companies...
MOP have to say use TopTeir (tm) fuel because it's a marketing effort by BMW. My car (an 02/03 MCS with pulley) is horrible with Shell VPower. It's currently got 87 in it because I was diluting out the 93, but the fill up I do tomorrow will be with 89 and I expect no problems.
I'm not certain, but I suspect that there are hardware differences in the ECUs / sensors that mean that the more recent cars have less problems with the new fuel blends and that the older cars cannot be brought up to the exact same response even with the latest ECU flash...

[snek]

The way I understand it is that ethanol increases the octane rating. Therefore 89 with ethanol makes the ECU react the same way it would react to 91 without it.

[jwardell]

Ethanol is used to increase the octane in place of the other chemicals that are normally used, so it should still be 89 and the ECU should still detect it as 89.

However, I highly doubt the ECU has any idea what octane you are putting in, it is just a passive response to the slightest early detonation that it corrects for; without driving it hard it never has a reason to know that the gas you put in will detonate earlier.

[Aaron-05MCS]

Gav - Last I heard from somone in the Petrol biz - no more changing to non-ethanol gas in the winter.

Has to do with states mandating the elimination of MTBE (CT has the law in place already and NH is next year). Sadly ethanol is here to stay.. and it's even worse in the tank of my '84 R80..

Hope someone has heard otherwise, or can recommend a station in NH, MA or nearby that still has non-ethanol gas available.

[GadgetGav]

Quote: Originally Posted by jwardell (original)

However, I highly doubt the ECU has any idea what octane you are putting in, it is just a passive response to the slightest early detonation that it corrects for; without driving it hard it never has a reason to know that the gas you put in will detonate earlier.

Cold starting / non-starting is not driving hard... It's also not a response to anything because the O2 sensor is not hot enough to provide a reading, so the ECU runs in 'open loop' mode. The reactions there are pre-programmed for what 'normal' gas should do....

[GBMINI]

Quote: Originally Posted by GadgetGav (original)

... pre-programmed for what 'normal' gas should do....

But they seem to be modified by what the car has learned (if indicated by the fact that after clearing the data, the cold start can go away for a while)

GBMINI hated the non-Sunoco I gave it last time, and stalled once - but is perfectly happy with Sunoco 91 again now, starting immediately and running fine.

[GadgetGav]

True, but it only seems to learn for a certain period after it's cleared, maybe only on the first start. I don't think we've ever had a clear explanation of that from MINI or Siemens and probably never will because it's probably something they want to keep secret.