Spark plug problem - cylinder head needs replacing

[Fisher]

Quote: Originally Posted by fulle156 (original)

DaFlake and Damo, unfortunately having spoken to the garage about doing such job, they just won't allow it. Nor, so far, can I find a mechanic that will do it. Besides, were I to sell the car in later, I couldn't in good conscience sell it on with a repair job that I couldn't be certain of.
So its not like I want to spend that much money, but the way I figure it, if I have to spend 3500 I might as well go that bit extra and actually improve the car.
I know what you're saying and thank you for all your advice. The job is a real pain in the ass considering the timing of it personally, but out of curiosity how can you really give an accurate diagnosis without seeing the actual damage done to the engine?

10 minutes work, few euros, and you are OK.

Heli-Coil ( HeliCoil Inserts ) Helicoils Screw Thread Inserts | Emhart.com

[alski]

think i may get some of these to sit on the shelf for insurance, rather than after the event
any one clued up on what size spec we need for mini plugs, have a few contacts in aerospace, if thats the best route

[alski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Damo (original)

In the middle of getting my repaired at the moment and the repair should cost less than £100

However I'm only using it as a temporary measure and looking into getting a performance head in the future now (along with manifold and cam).

However the new car tax for 2009 may have put a dampner on that

was this after top gear run?

pm me with the full story, i was looking at some 380cc injectors for some insurance but reading between the lines, and speculating 200% i may need to reconsider..

cheers AL

[Damo]

Quote: Originally Posted by alski (original)

was this after top gear run?

pm me with the full story, i was looking at some 380cc injectors for some insurance but reading between the lines, and speculating 200% i may need to reconsider..

cheers AL

Nothing to drastic happened as blowing anything up, just blew a spark plug out. Due to it either being not tight enough, or to tight or cross threading, but NOT detonation. It did when I was only pootling along a good hour or two after top gear, at about 2000rpm pulling away from lights at very little throttle.

Its a shame as I'd just collected the GTT top brace that is now sat at Graham's gathering dust till i go back down to collect it (I live in Manchester he in Yeovil a good 220 miles away )

So get the injectors

[Damo]

Oh yeah, assumign I'm right it was cylinder 3, not the usual cylinder 2 on NAM.

Assuming that i have understood it correctly. - As your looking at the car front on the cylinders are 4,3,2,1, (4 being at the Supercharge end and 1 being at the air filter end).

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by Damo (original)

Anyone know who can do this in the UK?

MINI racers / tuners would probably be the best bet if your looking to have this job done as they will have probably done this sort of repair before (having the right tools, the right size), engineering firms may also have the equipment to do the job.

Quote: Originally Posted by Damo (original)

However I'm only using it as a temporary measure and looking into getting a performance head in the future now (along with manifold and cam).

Although your only doing it as a temporry measure the job done properly should last.

Quote: Originally Posted by DaFlake (original)

On the diagnosis side, you popped a plug unless there is something that you are not telling us (like Nitrous or something). This is not a MINI specific problem. My Escort had this happen at 20K and when I sold it, it had over 120K. So, the choice is yours and we simply offered up a money saving solution that has no ill effect on your MINI.

to add, I did it myself on the Escort and 3 years ago the car was still running around town on the same engine. (It was a 92 Escort)

I've also done the Helicoil's on various cars (normally due to the owners cross threading, not performance issues) and seen it done on others and as "DaFlake" says they last, most of the cars that I've done where local cars and the owners would bring them back to me if there was a problem, as "DaFlake" I have seen these cars running around for years and the repair has outlasted the cars (scrapped due to old age, other faults).

Quote: Originally Posted by alski (original)

think i may get some of these to sit on the shelf for insurance, rather than after the event
any one clued up on what size spec we need for mini plugs, have a few contacts in aerospace, if thats the best route

Thats a very good idea as most of the time this sort of repair can be more finding the and finding the tools the right thread to do it with a garage who has the tools the right thread to do it with and if a garage doesn't have the right tools at the time they may add the cost on top just because they haven't got the tool and may need to get them in just for one job rather than already having the tools already (so in short what can be a relatively simple repair can turn out to be a big scenario).

Once you find a supplier, the Helicoil's can and are normally bought in a kit which includes a TAP (to thread the hole to the right size for the insert), an insert tool and a number of inserts, but then you can buy inserts later cheaper as the initial kits cost more mainly because of the TAP and these can vary in price, apart from size (the bigger the more expensive) the common sizes are cheaper and more available (in stock) and the odd-ball sizes can be more expensive and may need ordering the size issue is referring to the threads also .

These days with the Internet etc... it's a lot easier to find suppliers, but I've found that you are probably better off looking for them (Helicoil's etc...) at engineering suppliers rather than tools suppliers unless you know a quality tool supplier (normally the ones that go around and supply all the local garages).

The main thing when doing this job is to make sure nothing (debris) falls in the engine itself hence the Back-tap Taps help this, In the case of the Helicoil's they do have a tab that snaps off when you have inserted the insert, just make sure the tab is a snug fit in the in the insert tool before fitting the insert so that the tab doesn't fall in the engine after it's been snapped off .

[Damo]

Cheers Randall nad DaFlake you've put my mind to rest a little that this should last

Mayeb I will get coilovers before the head after all

[DaFlake]

I have used Heli Coils in many different applications. My first run in with them was when I was a kid working in a roller rink. We used them when the king pin would strip out. This was done on the rentals and to be honest they never failed again.

Now, there is no heat applied to that (or very little) but I have used them on my motorcycle and two other car plugs with no problems. Adam pointed out that there is a difference in heat transfer by adding the steel in there, but I would be willing to be that it is negligible, especially for the daily driver. if you check a lot of the American forums you will see that this is a common repair technique.

I have also used them in Aviation (US Army) but I believe that they finally restricted the use just because a failure at altitude can be very bad.....

[mini_crazed]

I reag a few of your posts. The same thing happend to me this past Sunday (when else).
I started to panic when I read the posts, then sanity took over. The thought of spending a lot of money to R&R a head got to me.
The painless approach (which worked for me) is an insert kit. In the US the company is PERMA PLUG THE PART NUMBER FOR THE 14mm 1.25 PLUG IS 2200-14.
It includes, a tap a peining tool and 4 different inserts, to match the plug thread depth. You will have to order extras if you plan to do all 4 plugs. You will also need High temp RTV or red LOCTITE.
It can be done in one's driveway, the whole proceedure takes about 1 hour, it takes slightly longer to do all four plugs. You will need a source of compressed air to blow the metal from the cylinder and a blow gun with a long thin extension.
I let the locktote set up for an hour then started the car. All was well. I changed the rest of the plugs. Then restarted and let the car warm up. then shut it down. An hour later I took it for a drive. ALL IS STILL WELL. the cost of the repair was 38.85 USD for the kit and 7.99 USD for the locktite.
One small mention is that I am a retired owner of an auto repair shop and have every needed tool. But ANYONE CAN DO THIS!
Good lucks.