Hello, am I the only one here that thinks the stumble is related to the clutch and not the ecu? If you start out very slowly, no gas, then only apply throttle after the clutch is fully engaged there will not be any stumble. Through searching the forums, I've come across it being a sprung flywheel or a clutch valve. If anyone else has looked into it being a mechanical issue I'd love to hear your thoughts.
btw, I have two mcs' and work at a dealership and they all do this when trying to quickly take up drive.
thanks
The stumble, hesitation is caused by a programming fault. ACTUALLY, BMW has addressed it and has a definite fix it. I have spoken to some people who are knowledgeable about the situation and the fix. The program upgrade or fix must first be approved by one of the government agencies that oversee manufacturing and how these effect the environment. The EPA must test, approve and give it a stamp of approval before an automobile manufacturer can release the product and synchronize it with an approved engine. It should not be all that long before it is available for the dealerships to flash customer cars. This is the best I can do as far as information. It is most defiantly not a mechanical issue. The programming versions available now will not take the stumble away.
Mini makes driving fun. Just like when you first got your permit to drive
Thanks for the response, but does anyone know the function of this problem. What is the ecu trying to do? Is there anyone that experiences this when clutch modulation is not a factor? I don't want to start an argument, but it just seems too easy to say computer issue and not look at how the driver contributes to this problem. Thanks again.
This is strictly a computer problem. Clutch driving tecnique has nothing to do with it. I have driven several MCS' and I can tell you that the clutch/Getrag gearbox is not the issue here. these cars use throttle-by-wire technology (E-gas pedal) and the Siemens EMS2000 ECU management system heavely controls all phases of acceleration from the get go. This applies to the Cooper 5-speed, CVT and MCS.
Accepting that all other factors remain constant (engine mods, if any, fuel etc)
It didn't occur with pre DMEv33.2 software
DMEv33.2 software update introduced the stumble
therefore the cause is DMEv33.2 and later software
This is what everyone who is experiencing this has found, it's not a difficult analysis to make, just been very difficult one to get BMW MINI to accept.
Where have you found it referenced to a sprung flywheel or a clutch valve? I'm fairly certain I was one of the first to post about this and have endured the problem for 5 months, without seeing a single reference to a flywheel / clutch issue.
Also you can recreate to stumble on decceleration with the clutch fully engaged, thus eliminating the clutch / flywheel interface.
Apr 03 BRG/W MCS Chili & Visibility Packs. Soon to be replaced by ....SC430.....
I couldn't find the posts, but they both were from mini2 forums. One said that the clutch valve was ment to reduce driveline shock at engagement (thus the delayed engagement) and that these were also used on new bmw's. I haven't had a chance to check with a tech at work yet, but will tomarrow. The flywheel thing caught my eye because I know of sprung discks but not flywheels. Perhaps I don't have any "stumble" and I just don't like how this clutch feels. I've noticed that most new bmw's do this a little also. Although, for the first few thousand miles both of my cars stumbled a little while lightly on the throttle around 3000rpm. Thanks again.
I've not noticed this on any of the new BMW's I've had as loan cars when mine's gone back in for this to be fixed. that's 4 so far, plus 3 demonstrators for my wife's new purchase.
Also, what do you class as the "first few thousand miles"? Mines done 7000 in 5 months, and the stumble is still as bad as the day it was new.
Apr 03 BRG/W MCS Chili & Visibility Packs. Soon to be replaced by ....SC430.....
Last edited by Jason S; Sep 8th, 2003 at 03:41 PM.
First some credentials. I have driven manual transmission cars for 20 years. I have driven a manual supercharged car for 12 years.
My MCS was a June 02 build delivered in Aug 02. I had the 2nd gear yo-yo only. In Feb 03 I had the new SW loaded, 33.2 I believe, and imnmediately noticed the stumble in 1st gear. Too much of a coincidence to me to think that suddenly I forgot how to use a clutch, or that my clutch coincidently developed a fault.
That said, I also saw the talk about it being a clutch issue, and I tested various clutch techniques but could never ensure a smooth start everytime.
I do not have an ETA. The time it takes for government stamp of approval can take some time though. Any time anyone deals with the red tape of Government the wheels of bureaucracy move at a slow pace. From what I understand, BMW is anxiously awaiting the fix for the customers, as it has put a black eye on customer satisfaction. I do not work in the auto industry at all. I had a problem with my MINI and I am pro when it comes to getting problems solved, it landed me being able to talk with some very key people in the technical division. If I get any more info I'll pass it on.
Mini makes driving fun. Just like when you first got your permit to drive
Thanks MINIQUICK, I appreciate your response. I think BMW needs to excercise all the pressure they can to address these issues as soon as possible. Releasing these cars to market with half baked engine management software was very poor judgment in the part of BMW. What were they thinking??
I'm not a MINI owner yet, been reading about all the likely problems I'll have to deal with before hand. The closest dealer is >250 miles from my home, traveling over some pretty nasty & desolate area. The stumble issue is stumbling my decision. I just call the dealer (Mini of Murray in Utah) & talked w/the service dept. At first the mechanic said he didn't know about a 'stumble' problem, when I described it he said they had had 2 w/the problem & the problem resolved by 'replacing the computer'. Has anyone here heard of this as a definitive fix for the problem???
I actually took delivery of a Cooper S from Mini of Murray last week and drove it all the way back to California.
Before taking delivery of the car, I was also a bit concerned about the stumble issue. After driving the car, all I can say is "big deal." I would not have noticed it had it not been because of all the posts here. I am not losing sleep over this slight thing. Much better things to do, like smelling the roses or taking the twisties.
In my opinion, no car is perfect. When I first bought a 3 series BMW, all I read were the rattles from the windows and how some owners were going crazy over that. But it was not much of a big deal. The reason why some owners were so anal about it is because they thought that slight rattle was not nice after spending 30K on the car.
But as my BMW technician said, there is no perfect car.
Just enjoy the Cooper S. There are going to be all sorts of problems. I can assure you that. But I think we are just getting a bit out of wack here.
We're not getting out of whack. Some people have no stumble, some have only a slight stumble, and for some it's so severe that passengers' heads are thrown forward and the nose of the car drops down as if under emergency braking. That's how it was for me until they fixed mine by sending my ECU off to New Jersey where BMW's engineers worked on the software. Just be glad your problem is slight enough that you can live with it, and motor on!
Scott in ATL.
2002 Mini Cooper S Chili Red/White.
1998 Mercedes ML320.
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