Problem with electrical power supply

[Pa!]

Hi all:

I own a Cooper from September'01 and this is the first problem I have. I'm going to describe it and I have to go to the tech service in a pair of hours, so I promise to post the solutions too so this post could help any driver that suffers it.

Two months ago I noticed that when I was handling on first gear with lights on, they decreased their intensity. I though that it could be a problem with the electrical generator when the engine was working at low revolutions.

The problem became bigger when, in one of these times, car literally reset itself: the engine did not stopped but external and internal lights turned off and on, partial kms became 0, radio changed its station, clock started at 00:00, radio made an internal strange sound, like ejecting the CD, and the worst, direction became locked, without servo.

This last three days the problem has increased and now I'm sure I can reproduce it. I just have to drive for 15 kms (from home to work). I park but I don't stop the engine, and I move the steering wheel at left and right. I notice how light decrease their intensity more and more in every turn. If I continue doing that I force a reset (as described in thirth paragraph), but if I stop the engine moving the key to the first position (ie, engine stopped but power supply on, radio working), all external and internal lights turn off and after two or three seconds turn on, radio makes an strange sound (like ejecting CD) and changes its station, partial kms become 0, the car makes the sound that you hear when you open the door and external lights are turned on (ding), and external temperature flashes starting from 0º to 4º in steps of 0.5 to finish showing the right value.

I know, it seems a poltergeist

Sorry for my poorest english. I will post the result in a few hours (I hope).

[punkeyfunky]

I'd suggest you get the battery checked first; make sure that there is a good charge going into the battery whilst the engine is running (14 volts or so I think). With the engine off, see what voltage the battery is putting out (12 volts at least).

Also check the battery connections, ensure that they are tight and free from corrosion.

If you are unsure, get a professional to do it, either a dealer, or at a local motor factor.

Hope that helps,

Lee

[Pa!]

Hello again:

First at all, thank you very much punkeyfunky for your suggestions. My Mini is still in the warranty period (so I hope), so I have take it to my local dealer.

As a first diagnostic, they think that there is an internal problem in the alternator, so they are going to change it ... when got it from Deutchland (next week).

I promise to complete this post with the final result.

Ah, and VERY IMPORTANT (dealer recommendation): if any of you suffer similar problems, try to solve inmediately. Consider that the direction servo is electrical and you could suffer a direction locking if alternator definitelly fails while driving.

[camini]

Hi there,
well what can I say, since one week I have absolutely exactly the same problem and symptoms.
Do you know what was wrong in the end? I will call the dealer today still..

Thanks!
Cam

[Malin Dixon]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pa!

Hello again:

First at all, thank you very much punkeyfunky for your suggestions. My Mini is still in the warranty period (so I hope), so I have take it to my local dealer.

As a first diagnostic, they think that there is an internal problem in the alternator, so they are going to change it ... when got it from Deutchland (next week).

I promise to complete this post with the final result.

Ah, and VERY IMPORTANT (dealer recommendation): if any of you suffer similar problems, try to solve inmediately. Consider that the direction servo is electrical and you could suffer a direction locking if alternator definitelly fails while driving.

Ours is a Diesel, and for some reason the power steering isn't electrical. However, it is only hard to turn at low speed. It always possible to turn. At higher speeds (above 10 mph) without the engine running it is not hard at all to turn the steering. It is quite a lot heavier than when the engine is running, but not dangerous.

I can't believe that the Minis with electro-hydralic steering have it lock up if it fails. I'm sure that wouldn't be legal.

A lot or people own cars and have no idea how the steer feels if the power steering goes wrong.

Back to the original problem, if the car starts OK after a fault like that, it is not the battery or the alternator.

If the alternator dies, soon the battery will go flat, all the electrics will stop, but then you will not be able to start the car.

If the battery dies, the alternator will keep everything running until you stop the engine. At low revs (1000 rpm) you might get some problems because the alternator output is reduced. If you stop, and the battery is dead, the car will not start.

What you have is some poor connection. On one side of this poor connection is the battery, starter motor and alternator. On the other side is everything else. The battery, starter motor and alternator need such big wires that the wires are connected sepatately. The are not part of the wiring loom. Everything else is fed through the fuse boxes, and I would look for a poor connection to the fuse boxes, but poor earth connections could be at fault as well.

I hope this helps. Post a reply when you get it fixed.

[camini]

MD, what you write is pretty true. When the 'glithc' occurs, power steering dies but there's no lock-up whatsover, it's just damn heavy with the 205 underneath, so I don't see this as a security issue.

I went at the dealer this pm and they saw it happen, said it was either a short-circuit in one of the cables to the power steering or in the pump. Anyway, some kind of short-circuit when the electrical demand is high and output from the alternator is low.

Oh, and they also said, that if a fuse were to blow it would have done already, what's more likely is the wiring to burn if things get worse.. I love the guys at the garage..

I will give you news next week (bringing it to the dealer on Thu)
Cam

[Maurice]

Hi there,

It's been a while since I've posted--been out enjoying driving the MINI, and getting work done, too. But last night as we were about to go out to dinner, we had a very similar failure to what Pa! describes. (For reference, 2003 Cooper, CVT, Sport pack, regular non-multifunction steering wheel, September 2002 build.)

The remote unlock worked, and I rolled down the windows halfway with the key as I usually do. Turned the key in the ignition as I usually do, and while the first rotated position was normal, everything beyond that was very odd: ticking sounds from the steering wheel as if the airbag was trying to "charge" or something, no indicator lights except the airbag light. When I backed off on the key, the recirc vent closed and the CD player tried to eject a disc (no disc in it, though). The dome light flickered on. I couldn't start the car, and I couldn't put the windows back up until I'd turned everything off and carefully turned the key to the first position only. Then I was able to get windows up.

As of this morning, remote unlocking doesn't work, and otherwise it's the same picture. This seems like a dying battery to me, but I have to wonder why the battery's dying so suddenly--we've had the MINI less than two years, and it worked just fine yesterday afternoon. Alternator might be a likely culprit, or some kind of short, perhaps. I'm kind of dreading this, because shorts are generally pretty difficult to track down.

I'm taking it in tomorrow, so I'll post on what they find in the event that this information helps anyone. (Ultimately our dinner plans worked out, as the friends we were meeting picked us up. Pleasant night to ride in a Saab convertible, I have to say, but we do miss having our previously reliable MINI at the ready.)

[Maurice]

Oh, and no, I didn't leave the lights on or anything. First thing I checked.

[Mini1380]

Maurice. I am very interested in hearing what this gets diagnosed as. I had the same problem this morning. I turned the switch on and I thought that the gauges/lights were a bit funny, and when I tried to start the car, there was nothing. No clicks. No lights. Nothing. Then when I pulled the key out of hte ignition, the dash started making a clicking noise. Something to do with the 'P' in park light still was on. (I have the CVT model). I put the key back in and turned on, then off and the clicking went away. My lights were turned off. I had to take my classic to work today. I will be checking out the battery as soon as I get home tonight. The closest dealership is 2+ hours away, so I need to see if I can fix it myself.

I am thinking that it is the battery since my car is an April 2002 build, and batteries usually do not last very long here.

[Maurice]

Well, I just dropped it off, so I'll post when I know something.

[Maurice]

Just got the call from the service department: the battery had shorted internally. YMMV, but it might be worth trying to replace the battery, especially with that 2+ hours between you and the dealer.

I should also note that the tow truck driver told me that he'd recently towed the other MINI on the street (an S) with similar symptoms. I haven't asked the other MINI owner about his problem yet, though, so I don't know if it was in fact the same problem. But it's half of a data point for you.

[Mini1380]

Sounds like it explains the problem. I found it kind of hard to believe that the battery just got low, because I wouldn't think that that would explain the problems. With a short in the battery, then I have a different voltage, and that could easily explain things acting really funny.

Even if the battery is covered under the warranty, It would cost me a day, and $30 in gas to drive to the dealership. I will yank the battery and get it tested tomorrow.

[Malin Dixon]

A test for the battery is to charge it with a charger for at least a couple of hours, turn on the sidelights, wait 15 minutes, and measure the battery voltage. If it less than 11 Volts, the battery is dead.

I don't know how big the battery is in the MCS, but fit the biggest one that will fit into the battery space. A lot of motor accessory places will sell you a small battery and save you a few dollars, but the small battery will not last.

[Mini1380]

My battery failed the load test. Bad cell. $108 for a new battery. Now I get to check to see if actually fixes the problem.

[Mini1380]

Further update. I fit the new battery in. Somewhat. It has to be raised up at least 1/2 inch to clear the battery case so that you can attach the leads. Then you can't even attach the battery hold down bracket because the battery is too wide. All Sears would say is that "this is what our manula says fits in the car" and "This is the only battery we sell for BMW's". They did say that if I could find a battery that would fit better, they would give me my money back. I talked with the closest Mini dealership who stated that the battery that Sears sells doesn't fit Mini's nor BMW's. Great. I got my core back, but the manager(?) said that we took a core charge and that you had to put the spacer under the battery for that car. Well they didn't tell me that when I picked it up. I am mentioned that that still didn't fix the problem about the bracket no longer fitting.

I am off to Memphis tomorrow. 150 miles 1 way. Then I get to try to actuall get my purchase price back from Sears. So everyone take note. Do not buy a battery from Sears for your Mini. It doesn't fit. Hopefully yours will go out when it is under warranty, and not shortly after.