Please Help - electrical gremlins

[gareth2512]

On Saturday I installed an Alpine cda 9831 head unit into my 02 cooper. The head unit itself is excellent and I would definitely recommend it to anyone. However, since installing it my car has developed some strange electrical problems.

Firstly, the interior lights - ceiling and foot well, have started to turn on and off randomly. This occurs whilst driving and when the car is parked with the ignition off. Sometimes they stay on for a long time, other times they flicker rapidly.

Second problem. The passenger window has started to open and close by itself. It doesn't open fully. It just moves up and down as if the door is being opened. The window is now stuck in the lower position, using the electric window makes no difference. When the window is shut, it stops in this lower position.

Has anyone else experienced these types of problems after fitting a head unit?

I have searched the forums and have discovered these problems occur individually. Does anyone think that it may just be a coincidence and not have anything to do with the fitting of the head unit?

Thanks

Gareth2512

[GBMINI]

Temporarily remove the head unit from all electrical connections and see if the problems remain ... step by step to identify the issue ...

[GaryM]

Don't think it is coincidence, as GBMINI say's remove the HU, better still the loom and see if all is well.

I suspect you have either accidentally trapped or cut a wire or made a wrong connection. Much of the car electrics are controlled via a communication bus (CAN) which is presented to the stock HU for security coding, speed volume control, CD changer etc. Aftermarket HU would not normally connect to this but it all comes to the same plug. If you have clipped this in some way might account for the strange behavior.

Look for incorrect connections, scrapes and cuts of the insulation on the loom etc.

[Al]

Quote: Originally Posted by GaryM

Much of the car electrics are controlled via a communication bus (CAN) which is presented to the stock HU for security coding, speed volume control, CD changer etc.

The CAN bus is not connected to the radio according to the Bentley manual.

CAN is hooked up to: DME, Insturment cluster, ABS/DSC, Steering angle sensor and transmission control module. (Although, the left out the tachometer cluster)

The Radio, CD changer and MFSW are connected to the K-bus. (Along with about 50 other things)

Same thing can happen, I just wanted to make clear the different busses just in case you need to take it to the dealer or something.

[mikeythemini]

The window up down thing sounds like the switch in the drivers door is playing up - water???
Or some alpines 4*60w stereos - the yellow wire comes with a warning not to connect to the car radio wiring but to connect to the battery - but I would think this would only give problems if the stereo was really pushed hard
Me thinks door switch

[SteveM3]

Quote: Originally Posted by alankilian

The CAN bus is not connected to the radio according to the Bentley manual.

CAN is hooked up to: DME, Insturment cluster, ABS/DSC, Steering angle sensor and transmission control module. (Although, the left out the tachometer cluster)

The Radio, CD changer and MFSW are connected to the K-bus. (Along with about 50 other things)

Same thing can happen, I just wanted to make clear the different busses just in case you need to take it to the dealer or something.

Umm, if anyone was stupid enough to see the CAN bus as an unused 12v source
after fitting a radio and connect their PDA to it you will get a whole host of hilarious
results. The other problem is when I took the connection off some of the problems like
the instrument lights not working corrected themselves straight away but some things
took a while. For example the fuel guage took 30 mins of driving before it got back to
normal. If you have multiple problems I'd suspect the CAN bus first. I remember the wire
is fairly thin and had yellow in it. Thanks to my new Bentley Service Manual I can
confirm it is the white/red/yellow wire.

[Al]

According to my copy of the Bentley manual Pages ELE54 through ELE56, the CAN bus is always a pair of wires that are twisted together.

They are Green-with-White-Stripe and Green-with-Brown-Stripe.

What pages show a White-Red-Yellow single-wire for CAN.
(Oh, I just figured it out. you mean White-Red-Yellow single-wire for the K-Bus!)

[gareth2512]

Thanks for all your help. My car is booked in to the dealer. Will let you know.

Gareth2512

[SteveM3]

Quote: Originally Posted by alankilian

According to my copy of the Bentley manual Pages ELE54 through ELE56, the CAN bus is always a pair of wires that are twisted together.

They are Green-with-White-Stripe and Green-with-Brown-Stripe.

What pages show a White-Red-Yellow single-wire for CAN.
(Oh, I just figured it out. you mean White-Red-Yellow single-wire for the K-Bus!)

You are right, it must have been the K-Bus. Still not a good idea to try and take 12v from
it . By the way on page 600-7 the manual says the CAN-bus uses an unshielded twisted
pair of wires yellow/black and yellow/brown and these are the colours shown on pages
ELE54 etc (GE/SW and GE/BR).

[Al]

Quote: Originally Posted by SteveM3

yellow/black and yellow/brown and these are the colours shown on pages ELE54 etc (GE/SW and GE/BR).

Oh, MAN, you're right. Gelb/Schwarz. My mistake.

This German color-coding can get you into trouble real -darn-fast can't it?

[jbuzza]

Quote: Originally Posted by gareth2512

Second problem. The passenger window has started to open and close by itself. It doesn't open fully. It just moves up and down as if the door is being opened. The window is now stuck in the lower position, using the electric window makes no difference. When the window is shut, it stops in this lower position.

Gareth2512

Last night my passenger window started moving up and down slightly - the exact same thing. This was also causing the alarm to go off !!

It was very damp and I'm wondering if it was something to do with an electrical fault in the door.

[GBMINI]

Quote: Originally Posted by jbuzza

Last night my passenger window started moving up and down slightly - the exact same thing. This was also causing the alarm to go off !!
It was very damp and I'm wondering if it was something to do with an electrical fault in the door.

Not at all likely to be caused by water in the door - the signals to the motor there are very high current and not likely to be affected by moisture.
The most likely culprit is in the area of the BC1, which is in the right hand footwell (UK - driver, US - passenger).
The BC1 controls all the interior electrics and gets signals from the toggle switches, etc to tell it to drive the window motors. It is also situated very close to the door and almost directly below the hinge & wiring to the door - an area where water could get in to the car.
There was a modification bulletin for early MINIs which suffered from water in this area - in simple terms it involved bending the wires to the BC1 so the water went down lower than the connections, and wrapping the important stuff in plastic!

Make sure the carpet does not feel damp in that area - or have your dealership check for water near the BC1.

[jbuzza]

Quote: Originally Posted by GBMINI

Not at all likely to be caused by water in the door - the signals to the motor there are very high current and not likely to be affected by moisture.
The most likely culprit is in the area of the BC1, which is in the right hand footwell (UK - driver, US - passenger).
The BC1 controls all the interior electrics and gets signals from the toggle switches, etc to tell it to drive the window motors. It is also situated very close to the door and almost directly below the hinge & wiring to the door - an area where water could get in to the car.
There was a modification bulletin for early MINIs which suffered from water in this area - in simple terms it involved bending the wires to the BC1 so the water went down lower than the connections, and wrapping the important stuff in plastic!

Make sure the carpet does not feel damp in that area - or have your dealership check for water near the BC1.

Thanks for the info. Car is booked into dealer next week and I'm going to print out this thread for them

Fingers crossed I don't get even more unpopular with the neighbours before then