Upgraded Speakers in Standard Slots

[soopacoopa]

Alright Groovers. I'm expecting my fully chubbed Cooper to arrive at the end of May, and I've been addicted to this site for the last couple of months. I thought it was about time I participated in this forum instead of just reading it.

As my car hasn't arrived yet, my starter for 10 is a question:

Does anyone have any experience with upgrading the standard speakers in the front and rear. I'm looking for the highest quality speakers that will slot directly into the standard positions with NO modification to the body or trim. The speakers also need to be relatively sensitive as I will be using a head unit with integrated amplification. I suspect it will be one of the new high-end Sony's with about 25W RMS x 4.

Also, any info on trim removal/reinstallation would be helpful. Peoples advice and/or experience is much appreciated.

Keep smiling, SC.

[smiffy]

Welcome to the site Havent got my ONE yet but have already started to get Audio equipment ready Ive opted for a Sony head unit (4x52, sub out, face off ) and also got some Sony 200 watt 6x9's The rear speakers are 6x9's so the choice is yours more or less
Ask Dom (another MINI2 member) about stereo's as his MINI has got it all more or less

[soopacoopa]

Cheers Smiffy for the v.rapid response. Do you know yet whether your 6x9's have the same fixing locations as the standard speakers or whether a small amount of fettling will be necessary. Which Sony deck did you go for?

[Minty]

They should fit straight in from whence they came!!

Picture courtesy of Dom:

[smiffy]

I think its a Sony CDx M730 I ordered it today & it isnt on the market over here yet
Check out Dom's gallery

http://mini2.com/gallery/personal/index.php?gallery=Dom

[soopacoopa]

Smiffy,

That's the deck I was thinking about. When it arrives, let me know what you think...Even better, if you have a digi camera take a picture of it when it's installed.

Thanks for the link to Dom's installation pics.

I've been looking at Infinity Reference range of speakers. Infinity is part of the Harmon Group (as in Harmon Kardon), and I've got a sneaking suspicion, that they supply the standard Mini speakers, but I'm open to being corrected.

Later.

[soopacoopa]

Sorry Minty...Thanks for the actual Pic!

[apache]

I don't know if it makes much sense for me to post here considering I am across the pond, but I thought I would add my two bits...

soopacoopa wrote:

Quote:

I'm looking for the highest quality speakers that will slot directly into the standard positions with NO modification to the body or trim. The speakers also need to be relatively sensitive as I will be using a head unit with integrated amplification.

You need to consider the most often misunderstood component of a stereo system...amplification. If you truly want the highest quality speakers then you must not run them on deck power. It makes no sense to spend money on component speakers up front unless you plan on installing an amp of equal or better quality. Many component speakers, in fact, are recommended to be installed behind a four-channel amplifier (four rears too). You should consider a stereo system to be only as good as your amplifiers. So many people come into stereo shops and say they want big bass and as a result, look for as much watts per dollar that they can afford. The problem then is that they look for the amp with the most power output at the cheapest price. There is nothing worse for speakers as pour power...ie cheap amps that put out gobs of garbage watts. Speakers run more efficient with more power, but it must be clean power...all you Americans will now that you cannot get clean power from a Jensen amp bought at Schuck's auto...sure it may say 600 watts on it, but it is 600 watts of garbage.

I don't know what high end speakers mean for you, maybe the Infinity Kappas separates?...but even with those, you would not want to run them off deck power. An amp that is built into a deck is working so rediculously hard to dissapate heat that I am suprised some even continue to work at all considering it too is fighting the heat from the motor mechanisms as well as the lcd display and processor of the head unit itself. Don't get me wrong though, you could go and buy almost any decent aftermarket head unit and new component speakers with a moderately priced amp and it would out perform almost any stock stereo, save some luxo cars maybe.

For me, when it comes to stereo stuff I spare no expense. But for some, a few hundred dollors seems absurd to spend for a couple of speakers. I know from living in Paris and London that the UK and EU have so many different brands as compared to the US, that it would probably be worthless for me to suggest brand names. But I must say though, I am curious as to why there is so much desire for Sony products over there? I personally wouldn't put a sony product in my car or home unless it was a MD player. I would suggest you find a company that spends less money on marketing and aesthetics and more on internal components that make their product better not just more visually appealing from the show room or inside your car.

Now if you really want the best of the best...you said you wanted the highest quality front speakers...I am sure you can get focal speakers then. They're French, aren't flashy at all and in fact they're crossover actually looks pretty cheap. But at $1100 a pair, they're not cheap at all, but sound beautiful. Another one to look at over their is MBQuart...a bit brite by my standards, but still well engineered. For the flagship American brand, a hands down goes to Diamond Audio. Polk Audio is descent too. I have Diamond separates in my car (will be going into my MINI)as well as in the rear, and couldn't be happier. Front Diamond separates were about $650.

For head units...Eclipse...in my opinion, out performs all the other brands we have here in the US, but I don't think you can get those over there. Not far behind though is Alpine, Pioneer and Kenwood. I feel Kenwood makes the best DVD Navigation system on the market right now, but am not too impressed with any of their other products save the Keg.

Amps...Xtant...enough said. Although I hear Diamond is making amps now too and am sure they are close contenders.

Like I said earlier, I don't think you could buy an aftermarket system that wasn't going to to be an improvement over the stock one. Sony does makes good head units, but stay away from their speakers if anything. If you really want high-end stuff though, like your post suggests, think beyond Sony.

Good luck and keep up posted on what you decide on. Maybe there is some rip-roaring stuff you guys have over there that we don't, which I am sure there is. It might be kinda fun to list all the electronics brands that differ and or carry different names on the same equipment.

[soopacoopa]

Hi there Apache.

Thanks for your long reply. Everything your saying is absolutely true. My last car was Golf VR6 with a very tidy custom install. Clarion CD (Burr Brown DACS), Phoenix Gold ZX amplification, MB Quart Components and a JL 12" Sub mounted in a sealed and deadened custom enclosure. However, I'm getting incredibly lazy in my old age.

I just don't have the time or inclination these days to strip out the entire interior of my car to run all of the power and signal cables, build a custom MDF/fibreglass enclosure, and then worry 24-7 that some git is going to rip it out of my car when I'm not looking.

What I'm looking for is a compromise. I can appreciate what your saying about the amplification. I'm open to suggestions, for a solution that doesn't require running power and signal cable to the rear, and speaker cable all the way back to the front.

I guess one solution could be to find a small 4-channel amp that can slot somewhere up front and feed upgraded speakers in the standard slots. Any ideas. I'm pretty familiar with the US products, as I lived there '99/'00, and still have good contacts for getting stuff out there (much cheaper!) I've been wondering whether I could fit something under the switches in the centre consol, even if it was only 2-ch for the fronts, and use the internal amp for the rears?!?

As for the Sony decks. It's pure vanity...I think they match the interior styling of the Mini so well. As I was trying not to get too carried away with this install the CDX-730 seemed to be pretty good value for money, and also has the possibility of integrating control with the MFSW.

Thanks for advice. SC

[apache]

soopacoopa...are you Swedish? I wouldn't be surprised; every Scandinavian I've ever met, whether in Europe or the US, speak perfect English...If only us Americans could do the same. Imagine this, I lived in Paris for 6 months and still can't speak French...anyway, to the point.

I really appreciate what you are trying to accomplish in your Cooper...excellent sound with minimal intrusion to stock look. My philosophy is pretty much the same and in fact it may be amplified when I actually see the boot in the Cooper...economy of space is important indeed. The best install in my mind = stock look (head unit exception)so no one is tempted to steal your gear. The worst thing anyone could do is stick a huge name sticker on their car...it says, "look inside and see all my expensive gear...and then steal it..." Doesn't the boot have a flip cover over it? A must for concealing all those amps and subs (well one or two in the cooper's boot anyway)!

This is what I suggest...you want the Sony head unit...go for it...it looks good and obviously has the features you want. Get the desired front separates to retain the stock tweet location and mid location, but I would consider installing a 2 channel amp under either the driver's or passenger's front seat. This will require minimal wiring, etc. Install the crossovers under the other seat (of course remove the seats for this, but be considerate of the wires to the seat's airbags!). You should easily be able to fish all the wires around under the carpet without actually removing the carpet. Then run the 6 x 9's on deck power like you suggested. It sounds like you will be living without subs...the 6 x 9's may be adequate for your taste...but then again you'll always be craving (maybe) that bass you have in your Volkswagen. The easiest install...all deck power...but be careful, more than likely you will blow your front tweeters, especially the higher quality they are...(higher quality requires cleaner, higher wattage to run most efficiently, ,poor efficiency results in distortion, resulting in speaker material degredation)

My MINI install:
Eclipse Head Unit
Eclipse 8 disk changer
Diamond seprates up front
Diamond co-ax's in 6 x 9 location
2 Xtant 4-channel amps
2 10" square Kicker Solo-barics in custom fiberglass inclosure in boot

Good luck and keep us posted...

[soopacoopa]

Sound advice indeed Apache.

FYI I'm a Brit. I travel around a bit...I used to live just down the road from you in Portland OR. A very beautiful part of the world.

I like your thoughts on placement for the amp...Time to do a little more research...

Thanks

[stanMINI]

I was going to start a new thread about upgrading the stereo, but it looks like a good deal has been covered here already. I was planning on getting an S with the Harmon Kardon. Since it is not available until Sept. I may have to settle for the standard. My understanding is that the Harmon Kardon set-up utilizes 8 speakers. Does anyone know what 2 additional speakers are involved. What is the quality of the standard system. Could one upgrade to something comparable to the Harmon Kardon at reasonable expense and with minor modifications. How is the standard head unit? Would you just need to rip it out and start anew?
Do these systems play MP3's?

Sorry to be so inqusitive. Thanks for any help you can provide.

Stan

[Dom]

Thanks for the mentions guys

To go back to some of the points over the past posts...

There's quite a few "how-to's" with regard to installing ICE in the MINI on the forum. When I add to my system in the summer I'm going to have most of the interior out so I should be able to take a few photos then.

I've got 6.5" Focal speakers with tweeters up front (although this is bigger than standard, no modifications were required to the bodywork/trim). This was fitted by making some spacers out of MDF.

In the rear, I've got Pioneer E-motions 6x9's. These used the original screw holes so again, nothing had to be drilled.

Then, obviously, there's the sub, amps etc.

This is run by a Nakamichi head unit. Nakamichi are one of the non-flashy good quality unit's apache was talking about (nice reply, good info).

From the outside, you wouldn't notice anything different. All speakers are hidden behind standard grills and the stuff in the boot is under the parcel shelf.

Just in case anyone's interested. In the summer the boot will be completely filled to bursting point with two rockford fosgate 10" subs powered by a rockford fosgate amp. The fronts and rears will be powered by an Alpine V12 amp. Unfortunately, I can't afford the competition stuff, but the MINI isn't really suitable for too much expense as space is limited (baring in mind I want to keep the back seats).

Hope this helps,

Dom

[smiffy]

Alpine V12 amps are probably one of the best range of amps you can buy on the market Thinking of get 1 or 2 to power my system, all under a false floor in the boot

[chiph]

Quote:

Originally posted by smiffy
Alpine V12 amps are probably one of the best range of amps you can buy on the market Thinking of get 1 or 2 to power my system, all under a false floor in the boot

I was wondering if someone was going to suggest a false floor. I figure you could hide an amp and a XM radio receiver under there, and power some good-quality speakers in the stock locations. Plus, you don't lose too much cargo room. If you want 10" subs, well, cargo space must not be a priority for you

I suppose you could get matching carpet from the service department. Just buy the piece that lines the boot and glue/cut to fit.

Quote:

Originally posted by apache
Another one to look at over their is MBQuart...a bit brite by my standards, but still well engineered.

I agree. I had a set in the Jetta, and they were really bright-sounding (I think the leather seats were a contributing factor). I even had their crossover set to the most-attenuation setting (-6db??). But it was excellent quality, and had no problems when the summer heat turned the car into an oven.

The head unit I had in the car was a Blaupunkt Toronto. It's digital volume control was a bit noisy, but the signal itself was very clean. The keycard security was nice since there was no bulky faceplate to carry around. It would probably be a good match visually to the interior of the MINI. I wish I still had it -- I don't care for the new silver look of today's radios. I especially don't care for the flashy graphics they seem to be compelled to put on the displays (Leaping dolphins? On a radio?)

Chip H.