Aloha MINI, aloha Miata

[HonoluluDoug]

The 3 year lease on my MINI recently expired and I turned in my black/black MINI Cooper S for a Miata MX-5 Sport/sport in winning blue. I wanted to post some of my impressions of the similarities and differences of these cars and will probably post this at both the MINI2 and Miata.net forums at the risk of being flamed on both sides like a 4th of July hamburger. That's not my intent, though. The two cars are different, but similar enough to be competing for the same buyers. That was the case in my situation, anyway.

When I went looking for a car back in December of '03, there were only two cars I really wanted: A MINI or a Miata. They're different, but both are swift little cars with great handling. Driver's cars. I loved the specs on the new MINI, especially the supercharged S, and Frank Stephenson's breath-taking modern interpretation of a classic design. I remember thinking, "this guy should be designing Ferraris." (Sorry.) But there were still long waits for delivery.

On the other hand, the Miata (NB) was also close to my heart. Like the MINI, it was truly a driver's car -- and hey, I'm a single guy and it's all about ME. I wanted it in red, with a limited slip differential. I was set to get a Miata, but at the last moment the MINI dealership called and told me they had one available. The guy who had ordered it got tired of waiting and got something else. A Miata.

MINI had hyped its no haggle sales policy, and sure enough, they wouldn't budge an inch -- I mean millimeter -- from the sticker, which included an $800 "appearance" package. Apparently, an appearance package is $800 that "appears" on your sticker. But I got it on a lease with a 60% residual after 3 years. I thought the residual was artificially inflated to get people to lease the thing, but after I traded my MINI in I saw it advertised for more than I bought it. I guess they should have paid ME to lease it.

Okay, time to break down the two by various categories:

BUYING EXPERIENCE.
Aside from the no haggling take-it-or-leave-it attitude, the MINI was an easy buy. No "let me talk to the manager" about anything. And the showroom was new, and right next to the BMW place. The sales people were nice. Even when I turned it in they were nice.

I bought my Miata (oops, they dropped "Miata" and it's just "MX-5" now -- but everyone still calls it a Miata) at Cutter Mazda here in Honolulu. They're an old-school car dealership that reminded me of the one in the movie, "Fargo." Do I have to convince anyone that aside from a root canal, few things in life are as enjoyable as the car buying experience? Why do they insist on drawing things out for hours when you walk into the place knowing exactly what you want and exactly what you're willing to pay? So after about 4 hours of haggling I drove out with a "winning blue" (for you MINI guys, that's kind of a darker "Electron Blue") Sport model, with optional "sport" (I'll explain the quotes later) suspension. I also got battered into paying for a Pro-Coat protection. Hey, I was tired and dizzy and about to pass out. I figure I got smacked around a little but at least I didn't have to drop my pants and stick my butt up in the air.

Point goes to MINI on this category.

DRIVING EXPERIENCE:
From test drive to drop off my MINI was always a hoot to drive. Nothing in the world drives like it and no Porsche or Ferrari driver has more fun. The secret to the MINI is that it's not really a car, it's a toy that you can put your girlfriend and groceries in. Step on the gas to wind up the blower, move the steering wheel a little bit this way and a little bit that way and have some crazy fun! I'm not that competent a driver, but I could whip past anyone just by virtue of a deep accelerator and tire glue.

There were a couple of things though. Although small on the outside, the driver ergonomics of the MINI were designed for big, potato-eating people (note that the author is a mini-sized rice burner). I'd slide around in the seat (I know, keep pressure on the dead pedal and right knee against the dashboard column) and it seems that the lumbar support hit me right between the shoulder blades. Okay, I'm exaggerating. The turn signals and wiper stalks are too far from the steering wheel which itself is too fat. With the seat ratcheted all the way down, there was enough room above me for a stovepipe hat. I'd drive around feeling like a kid who had stolen dad's car. Of course, that's not a bad feeling at all, and it definitely is something you can get used to. In fact, someone on the MINI board has a signature that reads, "Drive it like you stole it." Yup!

When the new Miata (NC) came out late last year, Mazda made a big deal about increasing the interior dimensions and the car mags said stuff like, "we can finally almost fit inside this thing now!" I'm a small Asian guy in an Asian car sized to fit. I don't know what the fuss is about. I move the seat forward a few inches, recline the back a few degrees, and I'm set. If you're too big to fit in the passenger seat, sorry, take the bus. This is about me, remember?

Ah, and the lumbar support supports my lumbar, the seat bottom cradles my bottom, and the seat wings gently wedge me into place. I'm ready for some serious lateral G's, baby. Speaking of lateral G's, I did spot $500 for the "sport" suspension package. The package is thicker anti-roll bars, a tower brace, Bilsteins, and a Tochigi Fujii limited slip differential. I was worried that being a sports car and roadster and all that, the ride would be harsh enough without a sport suspension, but I've never had a car with a limited slip differential and wanted to do some thrashing around without the inside drive wheel spinning and spoiling all the fun.

Well folks, the stock Miata must be a marshmallow, because even with the sport suspension, my Miata rolls in corners. Not much mind you, but remember, I'm coming from an early 2nd year build MINI Cooper S. I understand that MINI softened out the S suspension sometime later in that production year, but my MINI was the pre-***** version and the thing had NO cornering lean. Of course, I could feel every pebble on the road -- in fact, I could feel how thick the lane divider paint was -- but that thing could handle. Still, it was kind of a surprise to experience lean on my "sport" suspension Miata. I'm thinking of getting the Mazdaspeed suspension package that would drop the car a bit and tighten things up, but on the other hand, the side benefit of the softer suspension is that the ride is a LOT smoother. I'm an old guy, maybe I should quit risking kidney damage and cruise a bit. It's by no means your father's Oldsmobile, and handling is quite amazing, but it's accompanied by more lean than what the MINI's roller-skate suspension would allow. I'm going to live with this a bit before deciding to change anything and will report back.

Okay, the gas pedals on the cars are different. The much-hyped by-wire accelerator on the MINI is connected to a wall switch. The thing is either on or off. You must only choose to go faster, or go slower. Traffic signals and police cars not withstanding, I generally chose the former. Blipping the throttle at low revs is impossible, but maybe because at low revs your still dragging the supercharger around. The Miata's pedal is by-wire also, but reminds me much more of the days (the good ol' ones) when the pedal was attached to a cable that opened and closed a carburetor butterfly. It's eminently blippable.

I loved the gear set on the MINI's 6-speed, but it was just too high to begin with. It was hard to launch the thing. Once rolling a bit, it shot off like a rocket, but I didn't feel comfortable shifting into 6th until well past the legal speed limit. The MINI's supercharger is a great toy in itself. Aside from making a smooth whine when wound up a bit, it allows the discerning driver to dial in however much power by using the tach. More revs, more power. Start at low revs and step on the floor switch and your rate of acceleration would increase very linearly with increasing revs. The faster you went, the faster the rate of acceleration. Of course, at low revs, the supercharger isn't doing anything, and in fact, it feels like you're dragging it around. Somewhere around 3.5K it starts pulling its own weight and then it contributes more and more the higher the tach needle goes. That's the way superchargers work.

The Miata is naturally aspirated. It has variable cam timing which means a lumpy torque curve. The cams cut in with a surge somewhere between 3.5K and 4K (I can't tell because that's when the tach needle starts moving too fast). Feels like you lit some booster rockets or something. Then the tach needle swings into the early afternoon and you have to shift. Repeat as needed. The cams don't come on like the early Honda VTECs (talk about wall switch), but still, it's very noticeable. And a weird sensation after living with the supercharger. Good thing it has entertainment value.

The Miata's 6-speed is very lovable too, and the great thing is that the whole gear set is very low. You can actually use second to crawl out of a stop (the kind where you don't really stop). This makes quick launches an easy amusement and 6th actually usable. I've caught myself reaching for 7th on long night drives.

I read that MINI just lowered their gearset and in so doing dropped a second from their zero to 60 times. What the heck took them so long?! That change sounds like a winner.

Apparently, the shifters on MINIs were variable. I read posts of people having various probs with their shifters -- vagueness, vibration, not being able to muscle them into reverse, etc. The shifter on my MINI was a sweetie, though. The Miata shifter isn't so much a stalk as it is a lever . It's a short little thing mounted on the high transmission hump separating you from your passenger. Considering that the engine and transmission is sitting right there, it couldn't be more direct. The notchyness going into first is mellowing out on mine, and it disappears after the trans gets warm, but the gearbox shifter is the very definition of short-throw and direct. I've heard the throws compared to a rifle-bolt action, and that's how it feels, sounds, and acts. Yahoo!

Speaking of sound, the mechanical sounds of the MINI are more interesting. I read an article by BMW about how much effort they put into that particular aspect of the car. The MINI is just plain entertaining to listen to. At low revs there is the high-pitched whine of the steering motor with the deep rumble of the mighty 1600cc powerplant. At speed, the whine of the supercharger fades in. Wonderful. The Miata sounds great when you're driving it at or beyond the "gonna be a little late" level, but just cruising around it's a bit industrial. (Oh, by the way, the "gonna be a little late" level is how you drive if you're running a little late and have to step on it to make up for time. I usually set off for work a little late for this very reason.)

The MINI's engine is shoehorned into the chassis using some kind of special engine mounts so the vibration doesn't make its way into the cabin or through the shifter or anything. The Mazda powerplant is twisted the other way and Mazda pushed the new Miata's engine another five inches into the passenger cabin to improve weight distribution and chaperone against indecent fondling of your passengers. Although not much vibration gets to the human occupants, a lot gets through the shifter and some also through the steering wheel.

TRANSITION ISSUES:
There's a big difference in break-in (run-in) routines. The MINI is very...uh... parochial...? You can't take it over 4.5K for 1500 miles or something like that, right? That's like saying you can light up, but you can't inhale. Everyone who actually followed that routine please raise your limp-wristed hand. That's a cheap shot. I actually did follow the break-in ritual. Who wants to break their new toy?

The Miata (delivered without break-in retarding synthetic oil in the sump) manual just says, "Hey, just don't get too crazy for the first 600 miles or so." Paraphrasing from memory here. I followed that break-in ritual too.

Some MINI components have "BMW" stamped on it. That's pretty cool. You can also tell people that MINIs are made by BMW. My Miata's dipstick has "FoMoCo" engraved on it. I don't show people my dipstick.

As different as these cars are, they're surprisingly similar to drive. Steering ratio and feel are about the same and are the main contributors to the fun factor in day to day. The hood on the Miata seems to go on for miles, and you'll park a little to close to whatever is in front of you for the first few times. But if you have to back into a space you can get a lot closer than you think.

The really big difference is when you drive it fast enough to start having fun. It's interesting to hear chirps come out of the REAR tires, and the first time the rear end of my Miata started swinging around in a wet corner, my adrenal glands gave me a little squirt and my brain just wondered, "uhhh... what?" The limited slip diferential is great to have. Feeling both drive wheels scratching for traction and wiggling the rear end is so much more fun than having one of them just spin, or even worse having the traction control just cut power. Miata's don't come with an electronic traction control (it's an option), and in my opinion, that's a good thing. So the MINI and the Miata have much different driving styles at and beyond the "little late" level, but which is more fun, which is faster? Wow, hard question.

The good thing about the MINI was that you couldn't lock yourself out of your car because you had to lock it from the outside. One of the first things I did with my Miata was lock myself out by throwing my keys inside the trunk and then closing the lid. On a MINI, you'd just press the trunk handle button and fetch your keys. The Miata doesn't have one. You can also lock your doors, leave your keys in, then close your doors a split second before your brain goes, "whoops!"

The MINI would lock itself automatically as I pulled away from the curb in the dingy (but fun) part of town. I now have to hit the lock button manually to keep bad elements out, but I guess that doesn't matter much if the top is down. Even with the top up, thin vinyl is little protection against a malicious heart. Better step on the gas.

When stepping into the Miata at night you'll wonder what happened to the footwell lights. When pulling out your map book from your glove box you'll wonder what happened to your glove box light. Oh well, you know how heavy light bulbs are -- this is a sports car for God sake!

The stalks on the Miata are much more accessible to my fingers but the wiper controls move exactly opposite from the MINI. Mist is up, not down. Click down for intermittent, slow, and fast. The first few times you get caught in the rain will be a bit irritating.

Standard halogen headlamps are much better on the Miata, and fogs come standard on most models. Floor mats are standard on the Miata but the suckers are black which shows every spec of dirt. Plus they're made out of recycled toupes.

COMMUNITY:
Both toys have attracted a dedicated group of fanatics and aficionados. I used to post at mini2.com when I first got my MINI, usually arguing against the introduction of an automatic transmission on the S model. "Step on a clutch or get on the bus!" I'd scream. Well, I lost that battle and ran out of breath at around the same time.

I'm (cross)posting this at the miata.net forum which seems the most active Miata forum. Between the two communities, though, I'd have to say that MINI folks seem more the vocal advocates for their marque, and more likely to call me a traitor and other bad names. We'll see who smacks me around more.

SUMMARY:
When on my moonlit drives through the mountains, I sometimes wonder if I came upon myself in my old MINI and decided to engage in a gentlemanly competition, who would win? Hmm, that's a hard one. I honestly don't know -- probably a tie. Who has the bigger, crazier grin? You have to look really carefully to judge this one, but I think it's the one with moonlight on his face!

[Paul]

Nice post.

You could have got the best of both worlds though, manual Cooper S with the revised gear ratios (better launches) and LSD....



As long as you're smiling, that's the main thing.

[am0eba]

... And a convertible!

Great post, with very thoughtful comments. Makes me even more certain I chose the right car. (I had trouble fitting in the previous models of Miata - never tried the 5.)

Got the '05 MCS cabrio, with LSD and the lower gearing. Love it!

Did you lease the Miata? You can always come back from the dark side!

_Dave_

[fred3]

I have always wanted a miata too...until I saw/drove the mini. I'm only 5'4" and I use the height adjustment and it doesn't sound as though you ever found it. Oh well. Great write up and enjoyable to read. Have fun with the miata. If I ever move to Hawaii(again) I'll look into the miata, but only if the price is more reasonable. Always did tick me off that it went from a $12k car to about $18k overnight, but hey I guess that's a free market for ya.

[AprilWhine]

Great write up Doug.

I had considered a Miata years ago, it reminded me of my old Triumph. But the 6'2" fuzzy hubby didn't fit so I chose to keep him and ditch the car. The MINI fits both of us.

[ScottyB]

Great post, great read.


As Paul said, as long as you're smiling - its all good

[Jammy Dodger]

Wow, what a post! I actually made it through!

Did you even consider a MCS convertible? Would’ve made a good median between the two.

FoMoCo on the dip stick huh? How are you going to feel about your MX-5 when the mother company makes another spin-off from another successful vehicle? Some people might even mistake the MX-5 for a glorified Ford roadster! Yikes!

[justbob]

HonoluluDoug, really enjoyed your essay--you've got a real handle on both cars, it appears to me. Great job!

Hawaii is a great place for convertibles--as other's suggested, did you try the MCSC? Just curious.

I'm in a similar situation--I've got about four favorite cars I'd like to own, and can't afford to add extra bays to my two-car garage.

I've always like Miatas (they are HUGE in SCCA racing, and a blast on the track), and the rear wheel drive has something to say for it. I think you'll have an interesting time of it during the rainy season, after being in a FWD car for so long.

I, too, have considered the Miata, but I'm 6'2" and I have twins living at home who I have to pick up occasionally on my way home from work, so I still need four seats and a bit more room.

How fast can you get the MSC and MX-5 to go by the time you hit the Like Like Tunnel? Which one is the best Pali Climber?

Good luck, and thanks!

[HonoluluDoug]

Quote: Originally Posted by justbob

...

Hawaii is a great place for convertibles--as other's suggested, did you try the MCSC? Just curious.
...

How fast can you get the MSC and MX-5 to go by the time you hit the Like Like Tunnel? Which one is the best Pali Climber?

Good luck, and thanks!

I didn't seriously consider the MCSC or anything else, really. I'm really happy with my experience with the MCS, but I wanted something 2-seater and convertible. For a brief moment the new Civic Si crossed my mind because I have ALWAYS liked hot hatchbacks. But I've already had one of the Hot Hatches in All History, the MCS -- why push my luck?

And yes indeed, the Pali and Likelike are great rides, especially on nights of the full moon. The other one is H3. You can circle around going Likelike and H3 back and forth all night long forever and ever. I used to do that in the MINI, and sometimes engage in an impromptu (and gentlemanly) "go fast" with other aficionados of brisk motoring. Pali is also nice, but recently, some drunk guy in his Nissan 350Z exited the tunnel (on the downhill Kailua side) and made the first quick right, but lost it on the next left and launched himself and his vehicle into a ravine. He hadn't strapped himself in and the Nissan landed on top of him to a most fatal result. This made the local citizenry cry out against "racing," and the Pali (and the other roads) are currently crawling with unmarked policefolk.

I'm glad you know the roads here. May they live on in your memory because they may not be safe for brisk motoring for many a moon. Full moon, of course!

[Mike Clarke]

Nice write up, clubMINI here in Perth has done a couple of runs with the local MX5 club and devotees of the two marques have a lot in common.

[martymini]

Great write up, thoroughly enjoyable read. I am in the market to purchase a new car and before put my money down on a new Park Lane "S", took a look at the new MX5, having just won Australian Wheels Car of the Year.

As a 6'1" aussie, I couldn't fit into the previous model MX5 and had heard that Mazda had increased the room in the new model. (Well I could fit, but was sitting "on" the steering wheel). Got in the new model, moved the seat all the way back, sat down, and......still couldn't fit comfortably. Still no leg room.

That was it decision made, now to order the new MINI.

Have fun in the MX5.

[UberFisch]

What a great, insightful post! I agree with almost everything you said! Throw some H&R coilovers in that Miata! That should do the trick.

[catflap]

Great write up! I have a 94 MX5 which I intend to keep forever (they'll have to tear it from my cold dead hands). I'm currently about to order a MCS as I want to share my fun / terror with my wife and child. The comment about a toy for the whole family is bang on the mark!

I found that the MINI reminded me a lot of a 1989 Mazda 323 4 wheel drive I had; these were a limited number of rally cars brough to the UK and given some executive toys to make them "normal". Very similar dynamics to the MC & MCS, Scalextric-like in that it flatters your driving (until the laws of physics take over and all four wheels lose grip).

The great thing with the MX5 is the oversteer on exiting wet corners - fun at much lower speeds than with the MINI. But the downside is that it's pretty demanding if you are driving a long distance on narrow winding roads. On the same roads the MCS is much more predictable - it pretty much goes where you point it. Still great fun though - just a different sort.

I also can't understand why some people have to be dismissive of other people's cars - I have found that the AC club tolerated our MX5 at their meetings ( I used to have an AC) and the MX5 club is great - I have friends in the French and Swiss club.

I just feel that I will be very lucky to have the use of two really fun cars - the MX5 and the MINI. As they say: "He who dies with the most toys wins...".

[matfrost]

Great write up!
I have been considering the new MX5 recently, as I previously owned the MK1 and MK2 MX5's, and really fancy a convertible again.
Really can't decide between an MCSC or an MX5 Sport, so at the moment am sticking with my MCS.
Still looking though, and write-ups like yours are a great source of information.

[Yoda]

That was exactly my predicament also. I had to decide between Miata and MCS JCW. But I have to wait for at least 3 months for a Miata and I could get only A/T not 6 speed Manual. So MCS was a sensible choice.