Horsepower

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phil R

BHP is a generic unit not a specific one - you can have bhp at the flywheel or bhp at the wheels - or indeed bhp at any point you care to measure.

The only difference between bhp and hp is that hp is used on the other side of the Atlantic!

Manufacturers and tuners alike use the figure prior to any transmission losses simply because it sounds better.

Phil

that is exactly my point....

it only matters what gets to the pavement

[MINIAC]

From A Dictionary of Units of Measurement:

brake horsepower (bhp)

the effective power output of an engine, sometimes measured as the resistance the engine provides to a brake attached to the output shaft. See horsepower.

horsepower (hp)

a unit of power representing the power exerted by a horse in pulling. The horsepower was defined by James Watt (1736-1819), the inventor of the steam engine, who determined after careful measurements that a horse is typically capable of a power rate of 550 foot-pounds per second. This means that a horse, harnessed to an appropriate machine, can lift 550 pounds at the rate of 1 foot per second. Today the SI unit of power is named for Watt, and one horsepower is equal to approximately 745.6999 watts. Outside the U.S., the English word "horsepower" is often used to mean the metric horsepower, a slightly smaller unit.

metric horsepower

a unit of power, defined to be the power required to raise a mass of 75 kilograms at a velocity of 1 meter per second. This is approximately 735.499 watts or 0.986 32 horsepower. The unit is known in French as cheval-vapeur (ch), in Dutch as paardekracht (pk), and in German as Pferdestärke (PS).

Manufacturer's horsepower ratings are those at the crank and NOT at the wheels.

To illustrate using MINI Cooper S horsepower ratings:

Builds thru June 2004 = 120 kW = 161 hp = 163 PS
Builds from July 2004 = 125 kW = 168 hp = 170 PS

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike Edwards

If you want more horsepower, buy all means get a different car.

Quote: Originally Posted by Grimbo

As said above, if it aint enough, try a different car

Sorry, but I find these replys rather patronising - and they are not even aimed at me. I wonder if you gave the same advise to people considering increasing their MINI's power with the Works kit. Mjmedlen Has a valid point. Although the MINI is focused on handling, power is also an important factor. In the hot hatch market there are many cars with 200bhp plus on their current models. Now if we consider the new up and coming Civic, the sporty vauxhall VXR range, new Clio all of these will be becoming even more powerful than they already are. Now I'm a fairly huge MINI fan but I was very much surprised and slightly disappointed to see the next S wont be receiving a power increase (I was expecting more like 200bhp). In the hot hatch market power is an important factor, and the MINI isn't a exception to this (IE. the success of the Works kit and the many aftermarket options). A power and performance increase is essential to ensure you don't fall behind the competition.

[Kodak]

Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz

Although the MINI is focused on handling, power is also an important factor. In the hot hatch market there are many cars with 200bhp plus on their current models. Now if we consider the new up and coming Civic, the sporty vauxhall VXR range, new Clio all of these will be becoming even more powerful than they already are. Now I'm a fairly huge MINI fan but I was very much surprised and slightly disappointed to see the next S wont be receiving a power increase (I was expecting more like 200bhp). In the hot hatch market power is an important factor, and the MINI isn't a exception to this (IE. the success of the Works kit and the many aftermarket options). A power and performance increase is essential to ensure you don't fall behind the competition.

Which is why the Works kit is such a success.....


The point being that if 170 bhp is not enough, you fork out another £3k or whatever the JCW costs and get a 200 bhp MINI.
Almost like the Clio Cup (which goes the other route by slashing weight to increase performance).

The works kit should be seen as an performance pack (albeit a very expensive one) option for the MINI, and not a separate car in itself.

I would assume that BMW AG kept to the status quo as it has been very successful so far. And if you are selling all your units at a certain price, why lower price/increase spec/power for no reason.
They are a business at the end of the day...

If BMW thought the aftermarket tuners were getting more market share or prospective customers were complaining that the car felt underpowered (and buying another car), then I am sure that they would change it pronto.

I would be suprised if any sales were lost due to the power (or lack thereof) of the MINI.
Also, as commented in above posts, it is not the power, but what you can do with it that counts. Personally speaking, I bought my car as I would rather drive round a corner at 30-40 mph than bomb it down a straight road at 100mph. ( I had only recently come off a 4 month ban for driving fast and wanted a different kind of speed...

Reading through the posts, I do not think the "get another car if you dont like it" comments are meant to be patronising; rather pointing out (maybe a little unsubtly) that you only have 3 options:

1) Keep the car as is
2) Upgrade the engine - this option comes with further sub-options dependent on budget and other factors
3) Get another car

[badboyzbadboyz]

Kodak,

I am not doubting the success and business sense of the Works kit but merely using it as an example of the standard S not being powerful enough for some people. It seemed strange for people to question mjmedlen when he/she mentioned the lack of increased power in the new engine when people buy kits to improve the power of their current MINI's.
Like yourself I believe power is nothing without the means to use it properly, and the best mod you can do to any car is add a good driver, but there must be a reason why you own an S and not a Cooper or ONE (same for me).
BMW will clearly know more about this than most but it came as a shock to see no bhp increase. Not all MINI customers will be enthusiasts like us that see more in the car than raw power and if the MINI falls fair behind in the hot hatch power war I believe it will cost them sales, mjmedlen being example number 1.

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz

... if the MINI falls fair behind in the hot hatch power war I believe it will cost them sales, mjmedlen being example number 1.

Aren't the two cars mentioned by the thread originator roadsters?

[pcnorton]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kumho Kid

there is a 430whp mini out there that is a daily driver

430 is with the juice buttons pressed. I would love to know what the day to dy average drive HP is. Is got to be good.


Paul

[dklug1]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIAC

Aren't the two cars mentioned by the thread originator roadsters?

Not only are they both roadsters, but I also have the some info on both of the cars and neither of them come with 240hp. The highest rating I can find is between 175 and 177hp. There are rumors about a SC'd version in the works for a year or two down the line, but for right now they are both still under 180hp.

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by pcnorton

430 is with the juice buttons pressed. I would love to know what the day to dy average drive HP is. Is got to be good.


Paul

340whp is w/o the juice

[RedUn]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kumho Kid

340whp is w/o the juice

AMD had more than that years ago just with a supercharger

[Revolution Mini Works]

no one has ever seen the car and we are NOT talking BHP like everyone does.. this is honest to goodness WHEEL HP

[Cooper76]

Well, I was going to comment, but I don't even know what this thread is about anymore...

[RedUn]

Quote: Originally Posted by Kumho Kid

no one has ever seen the car and we are NOT talking BHP like everyone does.. this is honest to goodness WHEEL HP

i'm talkin WHP as well

[Revolution Mini Works]

Quote: Originally Posted by RedUn

i'm talkin WHP as well

so where is the car? where is the documentation?

all I heard was they needed a mop to pick up the pieces

[Spoony]

You're very defensive about this Mini arnt you Kumho Kid

Will you just leave it and PM RedUn about this instead as this has gone way off topic now You can all blame me for it going off topic though sorry