Heel & Toe - MINI2

scollins · #1 (**permalink**) Feb 8th, 2002, 12:50 PM

For those that understand the subject, could you comment on the pedal placement and heel & toe ability in the Cooper?

I don't actually 'heel & toe', per se, I would call it 'ball & edge', using the left half of the ball of my foot (under my big toe) on the brake, and pivot the right edge of my foot on the accelerator. My 1995 BMW 318ti has excellent pedal placement--the brake and accelerator are just the right spacing from each other. Being a BMW-influenced design, I wonder is the Cooper is similar? Also, is the accelerator hinged at the top or bottom?

Thanks!
Shawn
1995 BMW 318ti Sport (Plate: HEELNTOE :-)
2002 MINI Cooper S (Plate: SYZMATRS)

lol · #2 (**permalink**) Feb 8th, 2002, 01:05 PM

If its any help i also owned a 318ti compact 1998 model before purchasing my cooper.

The accelerator pedal is exactly the same as the bmw, i mean the same style pedal. I find the pedals in the cooper very comfortable.

There is also the left foot rest the same as well.

I found the pedals in the BMW a bit more to the 'right'
and the pedals in the cooper more in line with your driving position. Slightly better then!

Regards

mike58 · #3 (**permalink**) Feb 8th, 2002, 06:34 PM

Yes you can def. heel & toe or ball & heel or any variation.
The pedal layout is superb (f/rest crap) and it is a delight to match engine speed to the gear selected!!
Dr Mike

Silverstone · #4 (**permalink**) Feb 9th, 2002, 07:24 AM

In my Cooper, the brake and throttle pedals are at very different fore/aft positions - you have to have pushed the brake pedal a long way before you can get your foot near the throttle.

In my car that means you can only attempt heel-toe down shifts if you are on maximum braking which is not what I like.

Redhotmini · #5 (**permalink**) Feb 9th, 2002, 09:00 AM

get bigger shoes silverstone!

ps. not related but is anyone actually going to silverstone this year? i just got back from catalunya (spain) and maclaren were testing there!!!

daxler · #6 (**permalink**) Feb 15th, 2002, 08:44 AM

the accelerator pedel is too far back to heal-toe and it does irritate me. Would it have been too hard to make all the pedels at the same level instead of the accelerator being further back. I can't do it without dislocating my ankle!!! My feet are quite big 11's. Oh well its still gr8 fun and to be fair I ain't that good at it yet. But now i can't even practice

Garfield · #7 (**permalink**) Feb 15th, 2002, 02:56 PM

Heel/Toed just fine in the reps car in this area. Was actually one of the easiest I've ever done. Now, I own three different manuals and I'm used to doing it for EVERY down shift possible.
But, compared to an Audi allroad, VW Passat, and Miata, the MINI was easy to heel/toe.
BTW, it's very uncommon to have the gas pedal at the SAME height as the brake, I wouldn't expect that.

mike58 · #8 (**permalink**) Feb 15th, 2002, 08:07 PM

I have a Cooper and a Porsche 911 the pedal arrangement is similar --- enough said?
Dr Mike

MadMiniManiac · #9 (**permalink**) Feb 18th, 2002, 09:10 PM

The reason the accel. pedal is further back is so that when braking heavily (when you need h & t) the accel. and brake pedals are in line with each other.
Heel and toe works a treat. I even do it going into junctions in town. Bit ott but it just sounds so good!

scollins · #10 (**permalink**) Feb 18th, 2002, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MadMiniManiac
The reason the accel. pedal is further back is so that when braking heavily (when you need h & t) the accel. and brake pedals are in line with each other.

MadMiniManiac has a point here. Let's say you're racing (or lapping, or Solo 1, or whatever) and you need to carry as much speed as you can into a corner. You're going to leave your braking to the last possible few meters, and when that time comes, you're very likely at high or max RPMs. The last thing you want to do now is downshift. Even if your RPMs were not that high and you could downshift, no amount of engine braking is going to slow the car down as much as the brakes will. So, you're going to squeeze that brake pedal for all it's worth, and just before you initiate your turn-in, you're going to downshift. The action of braking is going to slow the car, and engine, down to a manageable RPM that can be rev-matched for the lower gear you want when you track-out (exit the corner). Now you have two choices, you can use the heel & toe method of shifting at the very end of this braking zone, or hopefully you left yourself enough of a margin that you can get off the brakes and downshift before turning-in. If you're doing the latter, and if you're racing, you've just been out-braked on the inside by someone who can heel & toe. If you elected to heel & toe yourself, you clutch-in...a quick blip on the throttle with the other half of your foot...bam...and the lower gear selects nicely...you've just out-braked that car and shut the door.

Heel & toe serves a primary purpose...to accomplish more things in a smaller amount of time. But it's application is best left until the last moment. Much of the mention in this thread about the different height of brake to accelerator is a non-issue under strong/heavy braking.

Does all that rambling make any sense?

Just my $0.02
Shawn

MadMiniManiac · #11 (**permalink**) Feb 19th, 2002, 08:31 AM

Aye, just what I was saying. Totally agree.

scott shand · #12 (**permalink**) Feb 21st, 2002, 02:36 PM

i feel that the brake peddle is set to high for easy heel and toe still able to when braking hard though
the throtle peddle is hinged to the bottom

mike58 · #13 (**permalink**) Feb 21st, 2002, 06:50 PM

Lot of activity from Scots on this thread.
The prev entry is pure mince by the way as the pedals are perfect for H&T.
How do I get a wee Saltire on my posts?
Any Mini owners fancy a trackday at Knockhill this year?

MadMiniManiac · #14 (**permalink**) Feb 25th, 2002, 09:16 AM

I would really like to go to knovkhill but it's not my car and i don't think my mum would be too happy.
But i might just do it and not tell her.