Camber setup - the perfect figures !!

[GTT 280]

To anybody with tuning knowledge....

I have fitted Eibach Rear Control Arms & Eibach Adjustable Front Top Mounts and would really like to know what camber setting are the best for fast road.

I am thinking of a figure between 0 and 0.5 degrees

[k-huevo]

Negative 0.5 degrees camber is ineffectual; stock camber for the front is about -0.5 degrees and stock rear is -1.5 degrees. So if you want less understeer and more front end stick then set the fronts to -2 degrees camber and keep in the neighborhood of -1.5 in the rear. For some front stick but still retain less scary stock characteristics; bring the fronts in and add more camber in the rear relative to the front. Experiment until you find the setting you feel comfortable with. Don’t forget to re-align toe.

[Ryephile]

Ditto k-huevo's wisdom.

I run -1.3 front and -1.6 rear as an example.

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by k-huevo (original)

Negative 0.5 degrees camber is ineffectual; stock camber for the front is about -0.5 degrees and stock rear is -1.5 degrees. So if you want less understeer and more front end stick then set the fronts to -2 degrees camber and keep in the neighborhood of -1.5 in the rear. For some front stick but still retain less scary stock characteristics; bring the fronts in and add more camber in the rear relative to the front. Experiment until you find the setting you feel comfortable with. Don’t forget to re-align toe.

I actually found that the stock camber settings (with the right tyres) have been the best ride so far.

I am looking for 0.5 on the front and 1.5 on the rear, but of course will play around with options to compare on that day.

Cheers.

[roland2003]

A lot of people think they need more neg camber on the front than they do. Stock front neg is -0.5 degrees. I have tried -1.6 degrees on mine and was slower round the track.,so I'm now back at stock -0.5 deg. Couple that to longer braking distances, less grip under acceleration & very uneven tyre wear (bald on the inside edge) ,and the stock setting looks even more tempting.
Other things that effect optimum camber are:-
-Tyre aspect ratio & wall stiffness. (Very low profile tyres require less neg. camber)
-Suspension stiffness ,the stiffer it is the less neg. camber required.- TBF mine is very stiff!
-The circuit your on. Fast sweepers are better with less neg camber. Too much makes the steering too sensitive/nervous, as does too much tow out.
-Driving style;a 'late agressive turn in' requires more camber than an 'early gentle turn in'-. The latter suits my style better.
For road use stock setting is IMHO definatley best.
Best Regards Roland GT Tuning

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

A lot of people think they need more neg camber on the front than they do. Stock front neg is -0.5 degrees. I have tried -1.6 degrees on mine and was slower round the track.,so I'm now back at stock -0.5 deg. Couple that to longer braking distances, less grip under acceleration & very uneven tyre wear (bald on the inside edge) ,and the stock setting looks even more tempting.
Other things that effect optimum camber are:-
-Tyre aspect ratio & wall stiffness. (Very low profile tyres require less neg. camber)
-Suspension stiffness ,the stiffer it is the less neg. camber required.- TBF mine is very stiff!
-The circuit your on. Fast sweepers are better with less neg camber. Too much makes the steering too sensitive/nervous, as does too much tow out.
-Driving style;a 'late agressive turn in' requires more camber than an 'early gentle turn in'-. The latter suits my style better.
For road use stock setting is IMHO definatley best.
Best Regards Roland GT Tuning

Hi,

The point Roland makes about camber is a good one

Speaking purely from a track race / rally car perspective, choosing the right amount of negative camber is a trade off. Going to a higher degree of negative camber improves turn in and cornerning, but as Roland points out is is detrimental to straight line power down and acceleration, due to the decreased tyre contact patch.

There is no one "Magic" right setting. As Roland points out it depends on other factors such as suspension and ride height, driving style, preferred handling characteristics, etc etc

I have done a lot of testing, and I know what works well for me, in my car. That doesn't necessarily translate to someone elses car

Cheers

Robbo

[k-huevo]

Robbo, please share your range of camber settings.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by k-huevo (original)

Robbo, please share your range of camber settings.

Hi,

A good point to start for a circuit / tarmac rally car is :

Front : max caster / -2 camber / 1mm toe out
Rear : -1.5 camber / 1mm toe in

These are not the settings I am running, but are a good starting point for the average car set up.
As I said before, it is different for everyone depending on your car set-up (roll cage stiffness, shocks, springs, ride height etc etc).

With the set-up I currently have the turn in is amazing, mid corner speed is good, but you are sacrificing straight line speed and braking

Cheers

Robbo

[TimCrighton]

We set ours up according to the customers driving experience and style, however generally our cars are set up in the region of 0.5 to 1 degree neg on the front, with approx 1 to 2 degrees on the rear (we adjust rear toe more than we adjust the rear camber). It also ultimately depends on peoples requirements, one should and needs to consider that any movement away from stock can cause unnecessary tyre wear without much gain.

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by TimCrighton (original)

....one should and needs to consider that any movement away from stock can cause unnecessary tyre wear without much gain.

And that is basically the crunch. Stock setting unless you are a British Touring Car driver !!!

[MiniFr34k]

dumb q: but whats a good setting for street then? just lowered my car recently, and rear camber is shocking. im still learning this, but no idea whats the ideal settings for street camber.

thanks in advance.

[obehave]

Quote: Originally Posted by robbo mcs (original)

Hi,

A good point to start for a circuit / tarmac rally car is :

Front : max caster / -2 camber / 1mm toe out
Rear : -1.5 camber / 1mm toe in

These are not the settings I am running, but are a good starting point for the average car set up.
As I said before, it is different for everyone depending on your car set-up (roll cage stiffness, shocks, springs, ride height etc etc).

With the set-up I currently have the turn in is amazing, mid corner speed is good, but you are sacrificing straight line speed and braking

Cheers

Robbo

Doesn't the front also get a bit twitchy at high speeds with front toe out compared to toe in?
It works great for auto-x but I've noticed at higher speeds you give up a bit of stability.
I'm running 1/16th which is about 1.5mm toe out.

Like you said, it's a starting point. Just wanted to point out the other side of the toe issue.

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by obehave (original)

Doesn't the front also get a bit twitchy at high speeds with front toe out compared to toe in?
It works great for auto-x but I've noticed at higher speeds you give up a bit of stability.
I'm running 1/16th which is about 1.5mm toe out.

Like you said, it's a starting point. Just wanted to point out the other side of the toe issue.

Hi,

You are quite right. Front toe out makes the car turn in very well, but it can make it "twitchy" and over responsive. Also, due to the way the front suspension works, the car tends to toe out naturally under heavy braking, so it can get even more twitchy under heavy braking and trail braking

A little toe out is good for autocross, or tight circuits, but neutral is probably better for general road driving or high speed circuits.

Cheers

Robbo

[robbo mcs]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniFr34k (original)

dumb q: but whats a good setting for street then? just lowered my car recently, and rear camber is shocking. im still learning this, but no idea whats the ideal settings for street camber.

thanks in advance.

Hi,

The figures I gave for the rear (-1.5 camber and 1mm toe in) are actually very conservative settings, and would be fine for street driving. Most people I know who are racing / rallying are actually much more aggressive eg -3 to -3.5 camber and 2-4mm toe in.

cheers

Robbo

[olddad]

Robbo, just a coincidence your settings are almost exactly the ones I used as a starting point on my '66 Cooper S race car in the '70s. Started there and adjusted for track conditions.