Install sports springs to compensate for using Koni FSD? Or are standard springs ok?

[NeuroBeaker]

This may or may not be relevant enough to the previous discussion here, but maybe this is a good place to ask as we were talking about sports suspension. (Sorry if this turns into an inadvertent thread hijack, Picard!)

I've got a 2004 Mini One and was recently considering Koni FSD shocks to help with handling (I'm told this will hold the car more level in a corner) and also to cope with the potholes around Glasgow. As it is quite expensive to have shocks fitted - since the entire suspension needs to be dismantled - I figured that if ever I was going to change the springs on the car, that now would be the time to do it.

I don't really want to alter the ride height on the Mini - people have told me that a 30mm drop would significantly improve the handling but I don't particularly like the look of a car squatting down onto its tyres, and as this would reduce possible suspension travel I would be compromising myself if I hit a particularly big pothole. Also, I've got some pretty big speed humps to get over on my way to work and I don't want to risk hitting any of them with the body of the car. So, I'd like ride height to remain as is - or pretty close.

Can anyone explain the differences between:

• Standard Suspension (as fitted to a Mini One)
• Sports Suspension
• Sports Suspension Plus

I'm not sure if there's a difference in the actual spring between the various setups, or if the difference will solely lie in the shock absorbers used in each setup. If the springs themselves are actually different, then are they:

• Firmer (i.e. harder ride but less body roll)
• Shorter (i.e. car would squat lower to the ground)
• Any other possible differences I can't think of?

Essentially, my driving style is exuberant at times (like cornering safely, but with enthusiasm), although I've recently been keenly aware that the potholes and poor quality roads in the Glasgow area are jarring, shaking, and rattling my car to bits. I have heard that the Koni FSD shocks will reduce body roll in corners but are also supple for bumps. I have also heard that they give a more "floaty" (used in a slightly negative sense in the post I saw) ride than on the standard Mini Cooper S suspension after someone installed them. So I guess Mini Cooper S Springs + Koni FSD is more "floaty" than Mini Cooper S Springs + Mini Cooper S Shocks. So, does anyone know if Koni FSD + Standard Mini One springs would be more or less "floaty" than Standard Shocks + Standard Springs from a Mini One?

So... in a very round-about and garbled way of asking, I suppose the real question I've been trying to ask for the past 400 words is:

Do you think I will need to go for a Sports Suspension spring to compensate for "floaty" characteristics after upgrading to Koni FSD shocks? I'd like less body roll in corners, but more supple give over potholes and rough road, without feeling like I'm bouncing around on top of a marshmallow over little hills/summits/undulations and such (of which there are a few) in the road.

Ideally, I'd like to try to find out in advance of getting the Koni FSD shocks installed, that way I could do two installations at once, if necessary, to keep down costs. But at the same time, if new springs end up being too firm, I don't want to have to switch the springs around again and then try to figure out what to do with the sports springs I didn't like.

If you've hung in there and read all the way up to here, thank you very much - it is much appreciated! I eagerly await the wisdom of the MINI2 community!

Sincerely,
Andrew.

PS
Sorry for that being such a monster of a post!

[Paul]

I moved this to it's own thread as the previous post was about the second generation MINI, which is different.

[Richard Crofts]

The differences between stock and sports is the shocks and springs I believe. The difference between sport and sports plus is just springs. The hieght and firmness are different, not by huge amounts but by a little.

The JCW suspension (optional on all cars) is lower again and firmer too.

30mm drop does not sit that low over the wheels. I have 35mm KW and its not terribly low but does catch the ground on the strenth lip under the bumper on occasion.

Try minisports eibach specials 20mm drop instead of 30mm like on normal eibachs. Firmer ride, better handling and lower too but without most of the problems the 30-50mm crowd have with clearance. Coupled with FSds they should be pretty effective.

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

I moved this to it's own thread as the previous post was about the second generation MINI, which is different.

Thanks very much Paul, sorry about the earlier confusion!

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard Crofts (original)

The differences between stock and sports is the shocks and springs I believe. The difference between sport and sports plus is just springs. The hieght and firmness are different, not by huge amounts but by a little.

The JCW suspension (optional on all cars) is lower again and firmer too.

30mm drop does not sit that low over the wheels. I have 35mm KW and its not terribly low but does catch the ground on the strenth lip under the bumper on occasion.

Try minisports eibach specials 20mm drop instead of 30mm like on normal eibachs. Firmer ride, better handling and lower too but without most of the problems the 30-50mm crowd have with clearance. Coupled with FSds they should be pretty effective.

Thanks Richard, that sounds like a great idea! Do you know of any quantified data posted anywhere that does a direct comparison of firmness between standard springs and the Minisports Eibach Specials, or alternatively, what's your best estimate? I'd like to get an idea for how much firmer they will be.

Also, my insurance company approved Koni FSD shocks without any adjustment to premiums. Do you think they are likely to do the same with the springs, or are they likely to be more touchy on that one? Don't want to get my hopes up for too long before I call them and ask about it, in case they tell me I'll need to wait another 10 months until I'm 25. .

Many thanks,
Andrew.

[k-huevo]

I’ve used the FSDs with a variety of springs (and many other strut & spring combinations); the best spring is the stock spring for the FSD designed for the MINI model. To get the full benefit of the FSDs on the MINI they need as much travel as they can get and on the MINI that is very limited, up front especially. The Konis will still function with lowering springs but their unique effectiveness (the part that you are going to pay a premium for) will be diminished.

Lower is not always better especially if your roads are poor quality; there is a lot to be said for ground clearance. Lower does not mean less body roll without changing other aspects of the suspension geometry beyond struts. Alter suspension components one at a time and give yourself plenty of usage in a variety of conditions before moving on to the next change; wholesale changes may not give the desired results.

Installing struts is not a difficult task. The tools to perform the install will cost much less than a shop’s labor rate. There is nothing wrong with having a professional perform the install and in some cases that is the best option, but, the choice for having someone else to do the work or doing it yourself should not be based on “mystery”. Here is a how-to for installing springs and it’s valid for struts also MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Springs Install How-To .

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by k-huevo (original)

I’ve used the FSDs with a variety of springs (and many other strut & spring combinations); the best spring is the stock spring for the FSD designed for the MINI model. To get the full benefit of the FSDs on the MINI they need as much travel as they can get and on the MINI that is very limited, up front especially. The Konis will still function with lowering springs but their unique effectiveness (the part that you are going to pay a premium for) will be diminished.

Thanks very much. Does handling change a lot moving from standard shocks to Koni FSD? I was wondering if it felt like a "firmer" ride when you're on smooth road but then "softened" upon hitting a bump. I'm a bit confused on what it will feel like to have them on the car.

Quote: Originally Posted by k-huevo (original)

Lower is not always better especially if your roads are poor quality; there is a lot to be said for ground clearance. Lower does not mean less body roll without changing other aspects of the suspension geometry beyond struts.

Ah ok, from what a lot of people were saying, I had gotten the impression that if the car was lower to the ground that it would be less prone to experience body roll. I guess body roll is more a quality of spring firmness rather than height? Thinking along those lines... is a spring from an OEM Mini Sports Suspension the same height as an OEM Mini Standard Suspension but just with extra firmness?

Quote: Originally Posted by k-huevo (original)

Alter suspension components one at a time and give yourself plenty of usage in a variety of conditions before moving on to the next change; wholesale changes may not give the desired results.

Ah ok, so it's probably worth the extra installation costs simply to get a good idea about what each modification does on its own and therefore what I might next want to do... thanks for this!!

Quote: Originally Posted by k-huevo (original)

Installing struts is not a difficult task. The tools to perform the install will cost much less than a shop’s labor rate. There is nothing wrong with having a professional perform the install and in some cases that is the best option, but, the choice for having someone else to do the work or doing it yourself should not be based on “mystery”. Here is a how-to for installing springs and it’s valid for struts also MINI COOPER :: North American Motoring - Springs Install How-To .

Well, the concept of how it's done isn't difficult to follow and I've got a rough idea about what each component does... however, I'm not really what you'd call even an amature DIYer. I think DIY Hazard is more accurate. I'm somewhat accident-prone, wholly useless when it comes to fixing mechanical things (I'm a biologist), and the last time I tried to do some self-maintenance on a car... I inadvertantly set it on fire. To cut a long story short, a faulty Halford's battery charger charged the battery with reversed polarity so that when I installed it, all the electrics in the car burst into flames - electric windows, radio, alternator, engine control units, etc... I should really have lost heart after it electricuted my arms for the first itme during the installation, but instead I found a pair of rubber marigold gloves and carried on. I suppose that's where I went wrong really. I was blindly trusting the manual and looking at the pictures, confident everything was going in the right way round. Technically... it was the right way round from the outside, but with the reversed polarity, it was the same effect as installing it backwards.

Consequently, I am absolutely terrified of undertaking DIY work... each of my previous disasters set me back many thousands of pounds each. Bearing that in mind, it would be far safer for me to leaving it to the hands of a professional from the start, rather than pay extra for them to repair my damage as well as do the job.

About the most I'll undertake now is non-critical mechanical components, like trying to stop interior trim rattles. I can't possibly set anything on fire trying to secure those... can I?

[mmalc]

Some threads about FSDs:

New Koni FSD's and Springs in my '05MCS
Real World Test of Koni FSD (by BMWCCA)
Question to Koni FSD owners - still happy?

mmalc

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by mmalc (original)

Some threads about FSDs:

New Koni FSD's and Springs in my '05MCS
Real World Test of Koni FSD (by BMWCCA)
Question to Koni FSD owners - still happy?

mmalc

Thanks mmalc, I'd seen the last one before but the first two are new to me!

[Paul]

Also look at "similar threads", which is below the posts somewhere. Should be good stuff there with any luck.

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

Also look at "similar threads", which is below the posts somewhere. Should be good stuff there with any luck.

Thanks very much Paul, I actually hadn't noticed that feature about the site before... I guess I should be more observant!