SUSPENSION QUESTION: 'Ball joint on end of the wishbones needs replacing?'

[NeuroBeaker]

Hello everyone,

I've got a March 2004 Mini One and recently, I took it to a mechanic to get some new shocks installed (Koni FSDs, ordered through MiniMania ). Unfortunately, the mechanic couldn't access his spring compressor on the day (the guy who has the keys to get to it is abroad), and therefore couldn't install them for me (he was very apologetic). So, while I was there, I asked him to take a look at a few odd little things for me - having lost faith in my local BMW dealer to honestly/cheaply sort out little problems for me.

When he jacked the car up, he noticed some play in the wheels. When grabbing either side of the wheel or top and bottom of the wheel, it could be twisted along both the horizontal and vertical axes (as in plural planes of moment, not a sharp garden implement. hehe ). The movement fore and aft, he assures me is normal, but that a wheel shouldn't tilt side to side (as does when grabbing top and bottom). I've heard a few people on here who have referred to that sort of movement as being related to the bushes. However, he assures me that the bushes are all perfectly fine.

The component he isolated is a ball and socket joint just next to the wheel on the end of the wishbone. He's telling me that it's really taken a hammering when I've been pushing the car on rough and potholed roads. I don't really know much about the part in question (and am still curious as to the potential advantages/disadvantages of replacing bushes while I'm at it - although this mechanic advises against it and I've also heard Roland of GT Tuning say he runs stock bushes on his cars).

The mechanic I'm talking to has described that symptoms of this particular part being worn out can be wandering in the steering (especially during hard acceleration or hard braking) and a tendency to follow ruts in the road. All these things I have actually noticed, but just attributed it to worse-than-normal roads in the countryside surrounding Glasgow... so his explanations do seem logical.

So, my main questions are summarized here:

1. Does this ball and socket joint sound like the source of the problem?
2. If so, will just replacing the ball (as this mechanic suggests) correct the problem?
3. If so, can this ball be purchased separately from the rest of the wishbone?
4. If so, anybody have any ideas as to where I can get a hold of this part?
5. Does anyone have any further suggestions for items I should add to the job list, since it will be relatively little extra to add it to the job list after he's already dismantelling parts of my suspension system?

Many thanks in advance for your advice everyone, I do hope someone gets back to me with some ideas. I'll see about taking a digital camera picture of the isolated component just to be sure I've accurately described the part in question.

All the best and appreciatively yours,
Andrew.

[beatbox]

Hi, the part i think you are talking about is the track rod end.I have just had to replace mine(2004 JCW) car has only 15K on it.
My symptoms were that the car had become quite scary under heavy braking,squirming and weaving when braking hard from high speed also the steering was twitchy on bumpy country roads.
After lots of pressure i managed to get BMW to supply the part free of charge as a good will gesture as it was a premature component failure(car was out of warrenty).
Its only took me 30 minute to renew the part, part cost is £34 from dealers,but you will need tracking set after.ATS do it for £25,BMW want £180 just for alignment check!!!!

Cheers Beatbox

[johnmdanskin]

On a track car I replace that part every couple of years. Keep in mind that race tracks typically don't have much in the way of potholes. Personally I don't want -any- play in my wheels. Play means the wheels are doing stuff out of your control which is not good. Also consider that once it starts to play it will wear faster and eventually break. Not my idea of fun.

[MINIMANIAUK]

From your description,it is not the track rod end ,but the ball joint on wishbone/hub carrier that is worn , however all suspension components work in harmony and one worn part tends to wear the others prematurely.
It is now fairly common to see wear in the bushes/ball joints, and MOT failures are becoming more common,as is uneven tyre wear and pulling to L/R or wandering steering.
There is a proper ball joint tool to separate the ball joint/wishbone , whacking with a big hammer is not advised!!
I suspect rough roads and driving up kerbs takes its toll,and I am amazed at the sheer number of kerbed wheels I see,it is after all a small car with very accurate powered steering!!!
The ball joint is an individual part.
I am adding all the suspension /steering items to the site slowly (ie recon steering racks £199)as they are £400 + for a new one and concentrating on sourcing more items
the suspension /steering system seems to struggle compared with other cars for longevity,or it may be more "enhusiastic "driving !
ps The rear wishbone mount is a real mare to change too
A

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

From your description,it is not the track rod end ,but the ball joint on wishbone/hub carrier that is worn , however all suspension components work in harmony and one worn part tends to wear the others prematurely.

I've managed to source the lower arm ball joint from the local BMW dealer, as I couldn't find it anywhere on MiniManiaUK. In the end it was approximately £66 for each side, including VAT and the nuts to hold the parts in place.

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

It is now fairly common to see wear in the bushes/ball joints, and MOT failures are becoming more common,as is uneven tyre wear and pulling to L/R or wandering steering.

I did enquire about the bushes, but the mechanic said they all looked in good condition. He advised that going down that road would be expensive in terms of his time and that it was unnecessary as the parts really did not need replacement.

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

There is a proper ball joint tool to separate the ball joint/wishbone , whacking with a big hammer is not advised!!

Actually, when I was talking to him it did sound like he was planning to separate the parts with a hammer... I'll have a word with him on that one. Thanks for the heads-up!

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

I suspect rough roads and driving up kerbs takes its toll,and I am amazed at the sheer number of kerbed wheels I see,it is after all a small car with very accurate powered steering!!!

Sometimes I wonder how people can curb their wheels (I've never hit a curb, although on a recent rally, I did run out of road and partially drove through a ditch when an old woman pulled out in front of me). I have, however, had my passenger-side rear wheel curbed by the BMW dealer whilst it was in for warranty work. I questioned this when picking the car up, and they feigned complete ignorance - saying that their technicians don't curb the wheels of customer cars and that I was just trying it on. Quite understandibly (in my opinion), I was livid.

It does seem however, that exuberant driving on rough country roads has taken a toll on some components in my suspension.

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMANIAUK (original)

I am adding all the suspension /steering items to the site slowly (ie recon steering racks £199)as they are £400 + for a new one and concentrating on sourcing more items
the suspension /steering system seems to struggle compared with other cars for longevity,or it may be more "enhusiastic "driving !

I'll keep an eye out on the site - in future, I'd much rather buy parts from you than from the local BMW dealers.

Quote: Originally Posted by beatbox (original)

Hi, the part i think you are talking about is the track rod end.I have just had to replace mine(2004 JCW) car has only 15K on it.
My symptoms were that the car had become quite scary under heavy braking,squirming and weaving when braking hard from high speed also the steering was twitchy on bumpy country roads.
After lots of pressure i managed to get BMW to supply the part free of charge as a good will gesture as it was a premature component failure(car was out of warrenty).
Its only took me 30 minute to renew the part, part cost is £34 from dealers,but you will need tracking set after.ATS do it for £25,BMW want £180 just for alignment check!!!!

Cheers Beatbox

Quote: Originally Posted by johnmdanskin (original)

On a track car I replace that part every couple of years. Keep in mind that race tracks typically don't have much in the way of potholes. Personally I don't want -any- play in my wheels. Play means the wheels are doing stuff out of your control which is not good. Also consider that once it starts to play it will wear faster and eventually break. Not my idea of fun.

I'll ask the mechanic about the track rod end to see if that's worn at all. If it's not in excellent condition, I'll have it replaced and get the tracking re-set.