Perfect Camber

[GTT 280]

Hi,

When I had my 4-wheel alignment completed, the toe-in was 0.00 deg. Perfect.

The camber was a bit varied though with 2.5 deg +/-.

For road use only, would anybody reccomend installing rear control arms to get a perfect camber?

Do you need to introduce front control arms to matcht he camber setting of the rear?

When I spoke to a race technician he advised against installing rear adjustable control arms.

Any advice, links to threads appreciated - i'm in a bit of a rush now otherwise I sit and search for hours....

[Sands]

Ideally, you should adjust the camber to suit your driving preference as well as maintain even tire wear. The camber should be within 0.1* or so side to side.

To adjust front camber, you'll need some camber plates or get brave with a grinder to make the top mount holes in the shock towers slightly larger (not recommended for an in-warranty car or if you don't have manual skills). Nice thing about camber plates is you can play with the camber to even out the wear.

The front suspension is similar to other BMW designs. Some of them have adjustable wishbone rubber mounts, some do not. Not sure about the mini though.

Changing any of the stock parts will introduce more road noise into the cabin. I have not seen any soft mount rear links, just pillow ball links. There may be some eccentric urethane but I've not seen them yet.

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sands

Ideally, you should adjust the camber to suit your driving preference as well as maintain even tire wear. The camber should be within 0.1* or so side to side.

To adjust front camber, you'll need some camber plates or get brave with a grinder to make the top mount holes in the shock towers slightly larger (not recommended for an in-warranty car or if you don't have manual skills). Nice thing about camber plates is you can play with the camber to even out the wear.

The front suspension is similar to other BMW designs. Some of them have adjustable wishbone rubber mounts, some do not. Not sure about the mini though.

Changing any of the stock parts will introduce more road noise into the cabin. I have not seen any soft mount rear links, just pillow ball links. There may be some eccentric urethane but I've not seen them yet.

Can i install rear control arms and adjust the camber to 1deg neg on both sides?
it's lowered, and the front will remain as stock, is this ok?

[pocketrocketowner]

You will find that the rear has all the negative camber it will ever need with the stock settings and arms. If you MUST mess with your rear camber, I would suggest someone like Pro MINI who could sell you off- set bushings. The front is where you want to mess with your camber and where, unless you do as Mr. SANDS suggests above, you cannot do it. the MINI has not the slightest chance of adjustability to the front camber settings(short of a crow bar and a huge lever).

[shazam]

BBR's suspension mod changes a bit of the front suspension to give negative camber, whilst increasing the distance between the front wheels, and lowering the car.

Looks great too.

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by pocketrocketowner

You will find that the rear has all the negative camber it will ever need with the stock settings and arms. If you MUST mess with your rear camber, I would suggest someone like Pro MINI who could sell you off- set bushings. The front is where you want to mess with your camber and where, unless you do as Mr. SANDS suggests above, you cannot do it. the MINI has not the slightest chance of adjustability to the front camber settings(short of a crow bar and a huge lever).

Wait a minute....

I want to install rear adjustable control arms so that I can reduce the adverse negative camber that now exists becuase of the lowering. I have about 3 deg neg camber on the rear, and they don't actually match (the laft and right values).

I want to obtain 1 deg neg camber on the left AND right, and without fitting adjustable rear control arms I can't do this. I'm OK with the front remaining as it is. Looking down the side of the car, the front camber seems perfect.

Why do I want 1 deg neg on the rear - for perfect matching handling and to ensure that the rear tyres to not wear abnormally.

A thank you.

[Mike Edwards]

Check the settings of your coilovers.

If the camber is noticeably different side-to-side, then the wheels weights will also be well off.

Both will do strange things to the cornering grip...

Also, if you've lowered it enough to make that much difference to the camber, it might need to come back up a tad.

[pocketrocketowner]

Buying more bits to correct something OTHER bits you bought have caused seems a little strange...... but there you have it, it is what it is. Also, word of advice: Never 'eyeball' camber.....a good camber gauge can be had for a song at any race shop......

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mike Edwards

Check the settings of your coilovers.

If the camber is noticeably different side-to-side, then the wheels weights will also be well off.

Both will do strange things to the cornering grip...

Also, if you've lowered it enough to make that much difference to the camber, it might need to come back up a tad.

Wait a minute - The camber is not noticabley different, we're talking a degree at most. It's been lowered about 1 inch, maybe 1.5

Quote:

Buying more bits to correct something OTHER bits you bought have caused seems a little strange...... but there you have it, it is what it is. Also, word of advice: Never 'eyeball' camber.....a good camber gauge can be had for a song at any race shop......

I'm not buying more bits(the control arms) to hide/force correction on other bits (the suspension), I'm buying them to perfect the camber.

As the vehicle has been lowered, It has caused the camber to be increased. I just want to return it to its normal running angle for that height.

Incidentally, I was advised by JCW against fitting control arms; not sure why though.

[Mike Edwards]

Okay, some more info based on recent experience:

1. Both the Toe and Camber settings for the MCS fitted with the Works suspension differ from SS+.

2. Given that the Works suspension sits 10mm lower than SS+, an increase in camber is to be expected, but toe is also increased.

3. It is possible to adjust the rear toe without resorting to changing the rear control arms, but requires a BMW tool applied to the trailing arm mounting to do it.

4. What settings to use when lowering the car more than this is anyone's guess...

[Lohen]

Hi,

Although the thread is old i thought i would contribute.

To correct the camber on the rear wheels there are to mods you can do: a)buy a set of camber correction bushes or b)buy a set of rear control arms. The bushes are limited in the amount of adjustability they have but normally £100 pounds cheaper. The rear control arms have a lot more adjustability and will allow you to fine tune the suspension geometry at the back.

The front camber needs to be corrected with camber plates, thats the only way to do it (properly that is).

Andrey

[roland2003]

To check camber the car needs to be on a perfectly flat and level screeded floor.
If you check on the flat bit in the corner of the carpark etc you will be miles off.
If you lower a MCS the front camber which is -0.5deg standard will barely increase atall. The rear which is -1.5 deg standard will increase slightly more,maybe to -2 degrees.
For track use without spending a fortune leave the rear but add neg camber to the front.
-1.5 degs is probably best balance,though may wear tyres on inner edge on the road.
Camber plates are fine but most raise the car & make ride harsh due to no rubber cushioning of the bearing. 'A cut & shut' on the wishbones is a bit drastic & not reversable.
We at GTT can modify the top mounts & drill accurate new holes using a custom made drill jig. This setup is reversable & allows simple change from 0.5 deg (stock) to -1.7 deg
The complete service costs £199+ vat,fully fitted INCLUDING reseting the front tracking
(toe) as well. It doesnt raise the car,& doesn't harshen the ride .
Regards Roland Gt Tuning
ps MIKe 1 degree difference is huge, it would mean one wheel leaning in or out more than the other side by 10.5mm ,measured over the height of a 17" wheel+tyre (600mm diameter)

[Mike Edwards]

Agreed.

Maybe I should post the KDS figures from the 1st attempt to fit the Works kit? Left front camber was about 1 degree more than that of the Right front...

Where are you drilling Roland - sounds interesting?

[roland2003]

Anyone who wants a front or rear camber check (only),if were not busy I will do FOC,
in most instances with camber, if one side reads more than the other its because the floor is not flat.-Camber guages use integral spirit level,so this is essential to get correct reading. I would want to spirit level between all four 'tyre to floor contact points' before anything else. On these cars the front the strut is effectivley a straight pole ,therefore whatever make you put on, it will not effect the camber. Even the ride height has virtually zero effect to front camber.
Regards Roland Gt Tuning
Mike. I would think the JCW kit has nothing to do with imbalanced readings you got.
The 3 things it could be are ;
1) Inaccurate measurement equipment calibration/or use of equipment.(most likely IMHO)
2) The cars had a wack (I think youd know if it had!)
3) Some suspension component is broken or badly worn.

[Mike Edwards]

Oh - I could well belive that the equipment was used in an incompetent manner...

No accidents to date and only 3 months/4000 miles since delivery...

Now, about this front camber mod you mentioned?