Cooper gearbox

[MarkW19]

Just wondering, as a lot of people have had problems with Cooper Midland box, and also it can't handle much extra power/torque, as my warranty is expiring soon would you recommend trying to push for a getrag box?

Not sure how I'd do this, any tips on blagging one?

[RedUn]

Quote: Originally Posted by MarkW19

Just wondering, as a lot of people have had problems with Cooper Midland box, and also it can't handle much extra power/torque, as my warranty is expiring soon would you recommend trying to push for a getrag box?

Not sure how I'd do this, any tips on blagging one?

I'm sure I heard somewhere that the getrag has different mounting points to the midland one so would take a bit of work to make it fit, you got no chance of getting bmw to do that for you for free even if yer midland one broke tomos you will get a midland replacement (been there done that)

[MarkW19]

ok worth a try

[fred3]

Sounds like a pretty sleezy idea.

[MarkW19]

Sleazy?

Not really; if there's a substandard gearbox in my £15k+ car I'll of course want to try and get it upgraded if there's any possibility. BMW charge enough for these things without having to worry about replacing a gearbox after a few thousand miles or a few months out of warranty.

[L14MWY]

well im gutted, i just had to replace my gearbox on my 02 cooper, hope mines a getrag

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Why do some people automatically assume that the 5 speed Getrag gearbox is better than the Midland Gears unit?

The Cooper and One were originally designed to accept the Midlands unit and it had proven reliable for a lot of people. There have been failures, but there have also been failures of the Getrag unit and the Getrag unit has also been reported as frequently being noisy and difficult to engage reverse. BMW's official line has been that this is a "characteristic" of the gearbox!

My understanding is that the change to the Getrag unit (built in France for anyone that thinks that it is German and must, therefore, be perfect) was forced upon BMW, at short notice, when Rover decided (for whatever reason) to source their gearboxes elsewhere; it subsequently became uneconomic to keep the factory open to supply the MINI plant alone.

It will be interesting to see what BMW use for the "new" new MINI when they have had sufficient time to specify the gearbox correctly.

Tigger.

PS As the factory is no longer open, does anyone know where replacement Midland Gears gearboxes are coming from ? Is there a large pile of them, or are they being built as a "cottage industry" somewhere? Just a thought...

[minisoopercooper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo

My understanding is that the change to the Getrag unit (built in France for anyone that thinks that it is German and must, therefore, be perfect) was forced upon BMW when Rover decided (for whatever reason) to source their gearboxes elsewhere and it subsequently became uneconomic to keep the factory open to supply the MINI alone.


Tigger.

I agree with most of what you have said Tigger - except above. While I was at a factory open day (just for staff and families) one of the top MINI tester/drivers told me outright that they changed to the Getrag because of the number of warranty claims on the Midlands unit - and for no other reason

I think what you have said is just the official speel

Paul

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by minisoopercooper

I agree with most of what you have said Tigger - except above. While I was at a factory open day (just for staff and families) one of the top MINI tester/drivers told me outright that they changed to the Getrag because of the number of warranty claims on the Midlands unit - and for no other reason

I think what you have said is just the official speel

Paul

Hi Paul,

I doubt that either of us will ever know for sure what the reason was.

However, it does seem odd that (as Midland Gears was a wholly owned subsidiary of BMW) they decided to close the plant and outsource the unit when BMW would have previously had complete control over the design, manufacturing and quality control process and ought to have been able to correct any problems that may have existed without such drastic action.

If you are right, I can understand their reasons for wanting to produce a cover story; the idea of admitting that a third party manufacturer can produce more reliable gearboxes than BMW could "in house" would be pretty humiliating for them!

Tigger.

[RedUn]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo

Why do some people automatically assume that the 5 speed Getrag gearbox is better than the Midland Gears unit?

because it is!

it can take a lot more abuse/torque hence why they put the getrag in the D

[matt21]

i heard the midland box can take around 130bhp (not sure if it is true tho) and mine has been ok so far for 12,000 miles with 132bhp

also had a replacement box a while back and i rather cheekily asked about the getrag box to which they laughed at me!

[MarkW19]

I think 130bhp is a bit of a conservative estimate - I'm at approx. 140bhp now, and I'm sure (touch wood) I'll be fine. I think it's just when you get to 160bhp+ that you have to start getting worried.

Still, the last thing I want is to have a replace a gearbox after my warranty runs out, fingers crossed I guess.

[fred3]

And yet most mini's seem fine with the midland gear box. While I'm sure there are some midlands with inherent problems just like any car it seems a bit sleezy to try and get them to change it when it's not broken just so you can push it more. What BMW charges for the car isn't the issue as they charge what the market will pay(you and me and everyone else who bought are a case in point). What is at issue is that your wording seems to indicate that they owe it to you because of the price you paid. That's typical of a lot of the people today and sleezy in general because it's not only dishonest(no matter what we pay for the car it's still free choice), but eventually drives the price of cars up for everyone in the long run.

Hey it's just my .02 worth and while it isn't much it's a valid point. There are just way too many people today who think that they're owed more than what they get and then if they don't they get a bit dishonest and blame someone else for their actions. eg: well BMW charges so much for the car they should give me a new gear box that I will like. BS.

[MarkW19]

I'm not wanting a new box because I want to push my car more.

I'm wanting a new box because I've read numerous reports of the midland box failing, with no modifications to the engine at all.

I'm not dishonest because I want to cover my own back and not have to pay for a new gearbox when my car is just out of the warranty period, through no fault of my own.

There have been LOTS of problems with the midland gear box; BMW changed to getrag for a reason (and not just economic or financial reasons, it's a better box, full stop [or period as you say]).

I find it dishonest of BMW to choose to put a box with so many evident and/or potential problems in ANY car, nevermind a car that is a LOT of money to a lot of people. You shouldn't have to worry about your gearbox going in a new Ford Ka, nevermind a BMW-made, relatively expensive car.

I think it's you that's talking BS my friend - I'm sure you would feel the same; I don't want to be left short by my gearbox going when my car has only done a few thousand miles and is just out of warranty, as has happened to a lot of people. Anyone buying ANY car should not have to worry about this.

[MarkW19]

Quote: Originally Posted by fred3

eg: well BMW charges so much for the car they should give me a new gear box that I will like. BS.

Not quite - my oxygen sensor went after a few thousand miles, my windows stopped going down when the door was opened, my car often rattles like crazy, and I know lots of other people have had much more serious problems than these. But, I'm not saying that because my car was a (relatively) lot of money that I should be getting new plastics inside that don't creak or rattle, or new higher quality window mechanisms that work better. It's just one of those things - I love my car, and it's worth every penny I paid for it. And if I had to choose a new car again, I would make the same decision, happily and confidently.

But as I said, the price paid is irrelevant - you shouldn't have to worry about a gearbox going after such low mileage in any new car, particularly one that's made by one of the biggest and most prestige and reputable car companies in the world. And, particularly when they've realised their mistake and already changed the box only a couple of years into production. And they're not even recalling them (fair enough) and more importantly, they still appear to be making both boxes in case of failures or problems - amazing! This is what I see as dishonest, not myself.

I do not, as you incorrectly assume and deduct, feel I am "owed" anything from BMW.

I do, however, want my car - a car that I have looked after so well since the day I got it, and a car that I paid a lot of money for - to last me a long time, and I repeat, once again, that NO-ONE should have to have even the slightest worries or concerns about something as important, serious and major as a gearbox having problems with ANY car with such low mileage that has been treated like royalty.

If you don't agree with that, then I'm sure you will be in the minority.

Thanks for your input, everyone is entitled to their say. However, if you feel the need in the future to launch a semi-personal attack on myself (saying my actions would be "sleezy" [sleazy]), I suggest you PM me and don't dirty a perfectly legitimate and useful thread.