Running VERY rich!

[alexparkes]

Hello

I just had my 53 plate works (200 conversion from factory, 210 upgrade not so long ago) dyno'd today (on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno) and it only ran 190bhp due to the fuelling being a bit crazy.

The operator said that the car was fine other than the fact that it ran stupidly rich (richer than his 300+ bhp Evo6) and that was the reason for the low reading.

Anybody got any ideas why it would have run so rich and whats the best way to get it sorted out?
I always run it on V-Power and its only covered 20,500 miles.

Cheers guys!

[r1_kde]

From what I was aware they all run rich to a point anyway. I think it would be wise to go to a mini tuner and see what they think, they may be able to re-map this for you, alternatively go to mini and tell them its running too rich and have your map reset. remember that the mini has overrun to cool and provide a nice sound, this will also make it look like your running rich.

I though the stock JCW map asks for 95ron anyway even though everyone puts in 97ron.

[alexparkes]

I can imagin that the stock map would make the car run rich, for both sound and safety but a 20 bhp diferential is a bit too much!
I know that the kit is only rated at 210 and is unlikely to make that day in, day out in the real world.
The guy said that he had never seen a car run that rich to the point where the richness went off the scale.
He said that an ECU re-flash should be able to sort it but they wanted silly money and I dont know them well enough to ask for a cash job!
Anybody know if BMW will be able to do that?

[Snowie]

Hi Alex

Was it Charlie at Surrey rolling road

Can you post up the AFR figures at variuos RPM in 500 rpm limits from 2000 RPM upwards.

What boost is it running? did it get checked at the RR or do you have a scan gauge?

Who did the 210 conversion and how long ago.

I would consider taking it back and getting them to check it out and reflash the ECU

Alan

[Meeerrrk]

dont take RR bhp figures as gospel........

[Snowie]

Quote: Originally Posted by Meeerrrk (original)

dont take RR bhp figures as gospel........

That is one reason why I asked if it was done at Surrey Rolling Road. I know that Dyno and Charlie and would trust the output - my car has been there 6 times and I have also run a MINI 2 Dyno day there.

Remember the basic question is about running Rich, that is why I asked for the AFR results - they can then be compared with my history gained at Surrey Rolling Road - yes on the road may well be slightly different buts lets look at comparing apples with apples and try and give some guidence to Alex

[alexparkes]

It was not done at SRR but it was done on a Dyno identical to Charlies. I've had all my previous cars run at SRR and trust them/Dyno Dynamics.

I'll take a copy of the dyno print out, see what you guys make of it.

[alexparkes]

Ok, scratch that the scanners gone up the creek so photo's of print outs it'll have to be!



And a closer one of the AFR ration. Note how it goes off the page!



Hope that can help you guys help me!

Al

[Snowie]

Alex

This is miles out from what should be the result with a standard JCW 210 map - check out my GP tuning thread and you will see on my first dyno run what the standard GP map delivers an terms of AFR (GP map and 210 JCW map are just about the same apart from rev limiter). You will note that most of the AFR is in the 12s and only down in the 10s at top revs.

Was your car mapped when you had the 210 conversion yesterday, Did they just fit 380CC injectors.

Personaly I would take it back as it is cleary not right.

Alan

[alexparkes]

I don't understand AFR but he said that it went as low or lower than 9?!

The 200 > 210 upgrade is the JCW airbox and a different map/programming for the extra flap thingy in the airbox, unless i'm mistaked.

I'm talk to them tomorrow and see what they say.

Thank for your help so far

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by alexparkes (original)

The 200 > 210 upgrade is the JCW airbox and a different map/programming for the extra flap thingy in the airbox, unless i'm mistaked.

The JCW Upgrade Kit includes larger (380cc) fuel injectors in addition to the airbox. The ECU remap is for the larger injectors NOT the airbox (which has a control unit for opening the flap at 4500 rpm).

[MINI-Morgan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Snowie (original)

Alex

This is miles out from what should be the result with a standard JCW 210 map - check out my GP tuning thread and you will see on my first dyno run what the standard GP map delivers an terms of AFR (GP map and 210 JCW map are just about the same apart from rev limiter). You will note that most of the AFR is in the 12s and only down in the 10s at top revs.

Was your car mapped when you had the 210 conversion yesterday, Did they just fit 380CC injectors.

Personaly I would take it back as it is cleary not right.

Alan

Is yours upside down??

Looks seriously rich! I'm guess your tank of petrol doesnt last a long time either. Its nice that the slump in the power follows the seriously rich mixture and then as it leans off towards the high revs it picks back up again.

AFR is basically Air to Fuel ratio of the mixture and the lower the number the more richer the mix and the higher the number the leaner the mixture. You want to aim around 12.6 but 11:1 is safe. Try a 17% pulley on there and use all that extra fuel to good use


Id get them to confirm that they did map it for you as that is just awful! I know the first 200JCWs were terrible on fuel and need a petrol tanker behind them but thats just something else. Engine protection to the extreme.....

[DaFlake]

Reduction pulley can also make the car run rich. Typically the MINI can handle the extra air going in but have noticed that it is about 50/50 on the cars that I have installed the pulleys on. You might just need a remap to pull the car back to norm. The JCW map is designed for the bigger injectors and pulley as well. The airbox makes no difference as MINIAC pointed out.

[Ant FR]

also just picking up on your commetn about 20bhp loss, I have never ever seen a JCW car hit 210 on the rollers and have seen quite a few now. The average seems to be 193-197 ish. and guess what, 210 giving 190bhp means it stays within the 10% tolereances that most manufacturers allow. i always wonder if the 210 official figures were derived from a blueprinted engine.

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

i always wonder if the 210 official figures were derived from a blueprinted engine.

Pure marketing....

They probably dyno'd the engine out of the car under very controlled conditions. Once they hit that 210, they can market it as being achieved. This doesn't mean that every car, if any, will hit it unfortunately.