Performance testing update : good pointers

[Ant FR]

No figures here, no 0-60's no 30-70's no 60-130's no dyno results, no AFR readings, no comparisons, no intake temps, no MPG, no boost pressures, no reasoning. No GPS, no ambient air temp.


Simply drive it, happy with it??????

job done

a few of you may sleep easier if you follow the above performance testing

[sam_a156]

Lol

Ps. Don't have the time as I am sitting here typing

[Paul@1320]

ROFLMAO, I wish uou would of said that 25 years ago Ant I could have had a normal life and know whats going on in the world thinking about it maybe I'm glad you didn't say that 25 years ago might of been a Grandad by now

[batou]

I'm a geek, and proud of it. The more decimal points the better!

[roland2003]

This is a good point Ant , however for those who want to do the various tests here are a few things worth knowing if its ENGINE performance you want to compare:-
1) 0-60mph .....IMO pretty pointless at the power levels most of us are hitting .Very influenced by car weight, tyres (both effect grip), gearchange (inc use of FTGC), driver skill, clutch control, launch method. I think about 5 secs dead for a road legal Mini is the lowest youll get, so whether you have 250bhp or 550bhp its not realy going to improve.
2) In gear times....(eg 30-70 in third). This test is effected by gearing of car (ie early or late) and in this case is tailored for good SC car results. Make it a 50-90in 4th gear and the turbo gets better results. Either way, if you want to 'go' you will select the optimum gear to give you best acceleration not sit there in the wrong gear overtaking with an artic coming at you.
3) Drag Strip...............Again this has all the same things clouding the engines performance as a 0-60 time. It does at least have the latter part of the run to give some indication though, and is on a controlled strip. Anyone who does this regularly is probably doing 'Full Throttle Gearchange' (no crime, but is good to know either way).
4) 30-130, 60-130, 60-160.
This is the best test, it realy exagerates differences in cars (eg stock MCS 60-130mph is 45 secs) ,plus it is not realy effected by overall gearing, you get to use the right gear and change points of your choice ...the car has gears so use them. It also represents track day speeds (say 60-130), is not clouded by all the issues of the 0-60 and quarter mile drag racing. Weight differences of even 50kg would only give a small % variation ,whereas the same 50kg on standing starts will make much greater % variation in the times.You can even put a vid up of the speedo everyone can see it.
Downsides....its illegal so use a private track if you can. As with 30-70 'in gear times' and 0-60 you could cheat and do it down a 1in 5 hill. If poss do both ways and take the average.
CHECK OUT THE M2 GT TUNING FORUM FOR A CHANCE TO GUESS THE 30-130MPH TIME OF OUR GTT350T CAR AND BAG A GTT BILLET OIL FILLER CAP PRIZE...ENDS IN 5 DAYS!

[sam_a156]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

I'm a geek, and proud of it. The more decimal points the better!

Haha! I know the type

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

This is a good point Ant , however for those who want to do the various tests here are a few things worth knowing if its ENGINE performance you want to compare:-
1) 0-60mph .....IMO pretty pointless at the power levels most of us are hitting .Very influenced by car weight, tyres (both effect grip), gearchange (inc use of FTGC), driver skill, clutch control, launch method. I think about 5 secs dead for a road legal Mini is the lowest youll get, so whether you have 250bhp or 550bhp its not realy going to improve.

Still used by pretty much every car manufacturer and a great way to see how much quicker your tuned mini is compared to a much more expensive sports car

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

2) In gear times....(eg 30-70 in third). This test is effected by gearing of car (ie early or late) and in this case is tailored for good SC car results. Make it a 50-90in 4th gear and the turbo gets better results. Either way, if you want to 'go' you will select the optimum gear to give you best acceleration not sit there in the wrong gear overtaking with an artic coming at you.

30-70mph is a drivers normal range (for those of us who abide by laws and can't afford the tyres, brakes, tuition, insurance, risk and cost of a track day). I do agree about gears, I use 2nd instead of 3rd on my early box.

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

3) Drag Strip...............Again this has all the same things clouding the engines performance as a 0-60 time. It does at least have the latter part of the run to give some indication though, and is on a controlled strip. Anyone who does this regularly is probably doing 'Full Throttle Gearchange' (no crime, but is good to know either way).

Drag racing is a long past time . A 0-60 is still a representation of the cars performance if a 450bhp mini is slower to 60 that a 250bhp one because of grip it's still slower to 60. It just shows its not been harnessed correctly.

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

4) 30-130, 60-130, 60-160.
This is the best test, it realy exagerates differences in cars (eg stock MCS 60-130mph is 45 secs) ,plus it is not realy effected by overall gearing, you get to use the right gear and change points of your choice ...the car has gears so use them. It also represents track day speeds (say 60-130), is not clouded by all the issues of the 0-60 and quarter mile drag racing. Weight differences of even 50kg would only give a small % variation ,whereas the same 50kg on standing starts will make much greater % variation in the times.You can even put a vid up of the speedo everyone can see it.
Downsides....its illegal so use a private track if you can. As with 30-70 'in gear times' and 0-60 you could cheat and do it down a 1in 5 hill. If poss do both ways and take the average.
CHECK OUT THE M2 GT TUNING FORUM FOR A CHANCE TO GUESS THE 30-130MPH TIME OF OUR GTT350T CAR AND BAG A GTT BILLET OIL FILLER CAP PRIZE...ENDS IN 5 DAYS!

Be it through the gears or 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc 30-70 is still best for real world performance for most of us. How many of us in the UK have the resources or balls to do a 60-130mph test ? That gives a brilliant indication of the cars engine power and takes lots of variables out of the equation but absolutely nothing about a cars set up. There are still some of us who'd like to see the improvements from clutch, diff, tyres, suspension setup, weight reduction, wheels etc when harnessing our tuned motors. RR for your engine, road and track for your "CAR".

[roland2003]

.
For medium powered cars 30-100mph is a good test too.
500bhp wont be slower to 60 than 250bhp it just wont be quicker. 500bhp is not an on off switch, ...my car has a throttle pedal . With 500bhp you just wont be using full throttle to get optimum 0-60.
0-60 is fine for low power stock cars, big boys need the testing further up to give any sort of engine performance comparison.
Agreed good suspension etc is important but what Im saying is 60-130mph removes variations in performance due to driver/susp/tyres etc from ENGINE ONLY PERFORMANCE comparisons.
-Straight line 60-130mph for your engine, track for engine+car setup etc.

[Paul@1320]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

500bhp wont be slower to 60 than 250bhp it just wont be quicker.

Thats the best statement yet

[roland2003]

...unless both cars are gutted and running slicks then 500 will obviously be quicker.
On stock runflats and lots of lardy options......you are limited by traction, and the times pretty similar....we are talking FWD here.

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

.
Agreed good suspension etc is important but what Im saying is 60-130mph removes variations in performance due to driver/susp/tyres etc from ENGINE ONLY PERFORMANCE comparisons.
-Straight line 60-130mph for your engine, track for engine+car setup etc.

And as you'll see Roland, I said exactly the same thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by batou

That gives a brilliant indication of the cars engine power and takes lots of variables out of the equation but absolutely nothing about a cars set up.

It's nice to know my careful written posts are read

[BigShow]

You've missed out one blaring issue with 60-130+ mph tests Roland... Aerodynamics!

At least with 30-70 you have a universal test that everyone in the community can do, yes it may have to be split into a table for early and late spec GB's but it still a universal test.

In fact can we have a new table... I like tables

Quote: Originally Posted by roland2003 (original)

.

500bhp wont be slower to 60 than 250bhp it just wont be quicker.

LMAO!! Quality

[Paul@1320]

So to sum up M45 Supercharged for every day use and turbo for track days if you want to knock off a couple of secs off your best lap time and of course 60-130 competitions

[batou]

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow300 (original)

You've missed out one blaring issue with 60-130+ mph tests Roland... Aerodynamics!

Yes but we all have that issue, it means you need a lot more power to gain at that speed so good indication of the engines power to overcome this but not a cars overall performance.

Quote: Originally Posted by BigShow300 (original)

LMAO!! Quality

I missed that quote!! !! My new sig methinks!

[Jove]

Quote: Originally Posted by batou (original)

I missed that quote!! !! My new sig methinks!

Too late