350+bhp GTT Turbo Getting Major Upgrade - Mark Shead/GRS Stylee!!

[emmett]

It would be very difficult to split hairs over which would work better after two alternate systems had been built and installed.

You'd need to start with the application. For 'Race' or for 'road' or for 'a bit of both.' - Each design would need to be based around the same requirement for the best comparison. Then you would have to set out the parameters for the test. Things like how long to heatsoak and what type of use causes heatsoak. Cooling down period to return back from heatsoak. Flow details like maximum velocity through the cooler, length of intake tract, volume of intake tract including cooler, which cools best in steady-state or acceleration tests on a rolling road.

It could be done, but you'd have to be so interested in this particular aspect of the package that the gap between the effort required for a couple of posts in a forum discussion and the amount of effort, time and money needed to actually do as you say and build a competitive solution. Then to go on from there and to the trouble of testing and comparing the two solutions to find the differences would be no small task either.

My question for you Damo, what would happen if nobody ever posted anything on a forum? Let me answer it for you = no forum. Either that or you just get a whole series of posts (one after another) saying things like 'well done m8' 'fantastic work' 'blinding' 'awesome' 'oh, green with envy, well done m8' or just a 'thumbs-up' smiley and nothing else - ect, ect, ect... So which is better... for me, every time, I would prefer seeing the full discussion on all points of interest in the technical forum.

I can understand Graham having reasons for not wanting to get involved in a discussion of this type as to pick over a design of his bit by bit is hardly going to benefit his commercial agenda either for wasting his time which he could be spending elsewhere doing more productive things, giving an oportunity for opinions on his work when he might not want them, answering difficult questions, giving away commercial secrets, ect, ect... none of it would be any benefit.

In fact, if you actually look at what Graham said in response to my opening post... you see I give my initial opinion and then Graham says there's more to it than meets the eye... in other words, saying 'fair-enough, looks simple from the outside but actually there is much more going on than you initially realised'... which is actually a good response. Anything more than that, i.e. what is actually going on inside is more than likely not up for discussion in one way or another. But we'll wait and see.

[Damo]

Quote: Originally Posted by emmett (original)

It would be very difficult to split hairs over which would work better after two alternate systems had been built and installed.

You'd need to start with the application. For 'Race' or for 'road' or for 'a bit of both.' - Each design would need to be based around the same requirement for the best comparison. Then you would have to set out the parameters for the test. Things like how long to heatsoak and what type of use causes heatsoak. Cooling down period to return back from heatsoak. Flow details like maximum velocity through the cooler, length of intake tract, volume of intake tract including cooler, which cools best in steady-state or acceleration tests on a rolling road.

It could be done, but you'd have to be so interested in this particular aspect of the package that the gap between the effort required for a couple of posts in a forum discussion and the amount of effort, time and money needed to actually do as you say and build a competitive solution. Then to go on from there and to the trouble of testing and comparing the two solutions to find the differences would be no small task either.

My question for you Damo, what would happen if nobody ever posted anything on a forum? Let me answer it for you = no forum. Either that or you just get a whole series of posts (one after another) saying things like 'well done m8' 'fantastic work' 'blinding' 'awesome' 'oh, green with envy, well done m8' or just a 'thumbs-up' smiley and nothing else - ect, ect, ect... So which is better... for me, every time, I would prefer seeing the full discussion on all points of interest in the technical forum.

I can understand Graham having reasons for not wanting to get involved in a discussion of this type as to pick over a design of his bit by bit is hardly going to benefit his commercial agenda either for wasting his time which he could be spending elsewhere doing more productive things, giving an oportunity for opinions on his work when he might not want them, answering difficult questions, giving away commercial secrets, ect, ect... none of it would be any benefit.

In fact, if you actually look at what Graham said in response to my opening post... you see I give my initial opinion and then Graham says there's more to it than meets the eye... in other words, saying 'fair-enough, looks simple from the outside but actually there is much more going on than you initially realised'... which is actually a good response. Anything more than that, i.e. what is actually going on inside is more than likely not up for discussion in one way or another. But we'll wait and see.

I don't have an issue with people posting in response to things in the slightest. In fact Graham in the past as changed his work from feedback from customers to improve his designes further.

The top mount intercooler he first made compared to the much updated version on mine for example. Certain changes didn't work as well as people predicted and caused other issues so things were changed back.

I have no issue with someone coming on going why did you do it that way, have considered doing it this way as surely that would be better.

I admit your technical knowledge maybe good (doubt its better than Grahams) but I do have a problem with someone coming on and saying...

Quote: Originally Posted by emmett

That intercooler doesn't look too good really!

...when they can't provide something better

Its posters like yourself, posting in that manner that is the reason a big chunk of people have moved away from this forum.

As for the testing, if you can't offer a better solution yourself, then keep to suggesting better ways of doing somthing before slagging something it off. So my previous comment stands. Proove that his work is not very good with your own offering, or Shut up.

[emmett]

hur, people moving away from this forum? Where are they going then? I'd double-check your reasons if I were you... honestly, fancy telling someone to shut-up... hardly a pleasant or intelligent way to behave.

If you check what I said I didn't slag it off.. as you put it.. I said it 'doesn't look too good really' - i.e. initial perception. All I can comment on is what I can see... And what you can see is an intercooler which looks quite basic from the outside with the bumper covering part of it and I don't know how it matches up with airflow through the front grill but it looks large and anything not getting good airflow may end up causing hot spots in the cooler and unnecessary volume.

But... if there is in fact more to this than meets the eye, then it's no skin off my nose, at least we all find out what the story is. But like I say, Graham may want to keep his design ideas to himself and I don't have a problem with that if it happens to be the case.

[Damo]

Quote: Originally Posted by emmett (original)

hur, people moving away from this forum? Where are they going then? I'd double-check your reasons if I were you...

Not so much moving away as moved away:

totalMINI - the global community MINI forum
Check the post count since the site was setup compared with this one and you'll see what I mean. Everyone of any significance posts there now.

Mini torque
Check the post count of the Engine and Drivetrain forums compared with this one, as this is where all the people into tuning left and went to.

Quote: Originally Posted by emmett (original)

honestly, fancy telling someone to shut-up... hardly a pleasant or intelligent way to behave.

Unpleasent would of been using a very similar phrase, but frowned upon by this Forum, "Proof or STFU". Telling someone to shut up in general I agree isn't pleasent, however in the context of your posts and my replies it was fair and accurate thing to say.

Quote: Originally Posted by emmett (original)

If you check what I said I didn't slag it off.. as you put it.. I said it 'doesn't look too good really' - i.e. initial perception. All I can comment on is what I can see... And what you can see is an intercooler which looks quite basic from the outside with the bumper covering part of it and I don't know how it matches up with airflow through the front grill but it looks large and anything not getting good airflow may end up causing hot spots in the cooler and unnecessary volume.

Have you not looked at the photos? The number plate is removed for the track to ensure the central section gets even more air flow to it when it is needed. The top section gets air from the grill in the bonnet and the small grill in the front bumper. The rest of the cooler you can see as there isn't even a grill covering it up. Do you even own a MINI as you don't even need to take the bumper off to see how the air flows there you just lift up the bonnet.

Quote: Originally Posted by emmett (original)

But... if there is in fact more to this than meets the eye, then it's no skin off my nose, at least we all find out what the story is. But like I say, Graham may want to keep his design ideas to himself and I don't have a problem with that if it happens to be the case.

The reason you have got mine (and other people who can't be bothered to post) is the manner in which you posted.

By your own admission you posted just to start a fight, and you expect people to be 'polite'. You have few posts to your name on this forum and you come on and start slating something with little to offer yourself. Your techinical knowledge maybe good, but its all very well reading things from text books until you actually have something of your own to offer keep your less than flattering, quiote frankly pointless comments to yourself, or work at rewording them, otherwise people will ignore anything thats worthwhile you have to offer.

I suggest if you join the other forums your more careful with your first posts if you want anyone to take any notice of you.

[2 much]

Quote: Originally Posted by emmett (original)

hur, people moving away from this forum? Where are they going then? I'd double-check your reasons if I were you... honestly, fancy telling someone to shut-up... hardly a pleasant or intelligent way to behave.

If you check what I said I didn't slag it off.. as you put it.. I said it 'doesn't look too good really' - i.e. initial perception. All I can comment on is what I can see... And what you can see is an intercooler which looks quite basic from the outside with the bumper covering part of it and I don't know how it matches up with airflow through the front grill but it looks large and anything not getting good airflow may end up causing hot spots in the cooler and unnecessary volume.

But... if there is in fact more to this than meets the eye, then it's no skin off my nose, at least we all find out what the story is. But like I say, Graham may want to keep his design ideas to himself and I don't have a problem with that if it happens to be the case.

as you know so much explain why the volume of i/c is unnecessary ?am i missing something here you posted for fight?a lot of your quotes clearly come from books?after talking to mark shead for quite some time and him showing me why he wants things done this way
or that way and why.its seems to me you do not fully understand forced induction side of things i could be wrong but until you prove
me wrong then thats the way it will stay.i also think you are on the wrong forum you will get pepole that are almost as good as you on
this forum www.lancerregister.com some of the very best go on that forum if they are not up for it then the only place left is NASA.

lee

[emmett]

Quote: Originally Posted by Damo

I suggest if you join the other forums your more careful with your first posts if you want anyone to take any notice of you.

But what if I'm really actually a nice and knowlegable guy but I wanted to get noticed? I'm already very well known on some other forums with around 12 thousand posts to my name.

This is my engine bay in one of my Saabs as it is at the moment. I'm booked into to get it setup on the rolling road on 7th August so should see what it can do at that point. But needs a new headgasket first.




This is the gearbox I built for the car. It's got some strengthened parts inside and a Quaife LSD. The blue ports you can see on the diff cover are for the gearbox oil cooling circuit which becomes necessary when taking these cars up to higher outputs.




This is the car out on track at Donington Park last year. Was pretty wet.




The other car I'm building at the moment is a 1990 Saab 900 Carlsson. That's more of a restoration project and it's stalling a bit as I'm spending a lot more time on the track car right now. Only so many hours in the day.

This was the car before I started any work. Looks ok from a distance but since then it's been resprayed in the original colour and I'm steadily going over it bit by bit putting it all back together using new parts.




Just doing a simple engine rebuild with some lower-comp pistons and an aluminum flywheel.






I have an interesting exhaust manifold for it.




I'm also making up brackets to add new sensors to the engine for fitting later Saab trionic engine management. Normally this sensor pokes into a hole on the side of the cylinder block on the later engines but I've had to make some brackets to hold the sensor outside as this is the earlier engine and does not normally run the trionic ECU. Tronic is worth having as it has configurable boost, ignition and fuel all in the same ECU and I have the cable and software program needed to get into it to do remapping. Earlier ECU's like the one which would have come with this car originally only do a very basic fuel control and that's not much good for tuning. I had to burn my own fuel chips every time I wanted to remap it.




At the moment I'm using the old turbo which came with the car. It's good for about 230hp at a push and I'm using that to get started with but then I'm switching to this:



This is a VNT turbo. Notice the two actuators. One does normal wastegate control and the other controls the angle of the veins according to how much boost is already being made. This should be good for 300hp but the way it will deliver it will be where the fun will come from. Legend has it that this baby will actually make boost at idle RPM's. When I install it I should get boost everywhere all over the lower and midrange and as it's quite a small turbo it will probably start to tail off towards 5.5~6k~ish where the rev limit is. Good for the road, as this will be a road car, that's what I wanted.

I've refurbished a set of wheels for it as well. I like the standard Saab wheels as they're part of the original style of the car. These are the slightly larger 16" wheels. Normally the 900 has 15" but the bigger ones from the 9000 fit and have the right offset ect...




Using an old Saab as a lathe for cleaning up the rims.




Primer:




Then top coat is Saab iridium blue with pearl mixed in and then a pearl clear-coat over the top. Look at the way the spoke furtherest from the camera catches the light. The slight blue hint in the otherwise pretty silver looking paint just gives it a bit of an edge which wouldn't normallybe there in plain silver.




Anyway, that's my story so far.

[2 much]

well you got noticed when are you on donny next? done a few laps round
there in my time.i can not remember the last time i saw a saab turbo ripping
round a track.very impressed so far what series do you race in?


lee