MCS JCW Problem - please, HELP

[adn]

Hi.

I received the car with the JCW kit installed and I went to make a Dyno test (1)
I wasn’t very satisfied with the result. Then went to the Mini Garage and I asked if they made the ECU upgrade. The answer was NO.
I’ve waited 3 days for the code of the ECU upgrade. When I was waiting I’ve installed the K&N air filter and made another Dyno test (2).

The ECU upgrade came and they installed but the Dyno test was similar (3).

They told me that de ECU upgrade came from Germany. Should it come from England?

And the torque of 240 Nm against 210 Nm (stock) and the horse power 200 hp against 164 hp (stock).
My MCS JCW only have 215 Nm and 190 hp (if it has 230 Nm and 195 hp ok, but not my results)

What could it be the problem?

Must I go to England to a John Cooper Garage to have it done correctly?

John Cooper Works S721 fitted in 23/02/2004

:: 1 :: (100 octane fuel) 11/03/2004
Power at flywheel - 137.3 kW (186.6 hp) at 6704 rpm (211.7 km/h)
Power at wheels - 113.3kW (154 hp)
Power loss - 24 kW (32.6 hp)
Power (DIN 70020) - 140.4 kW (190.8 hp)
Torque - 215.7 Nm at 3930 rpm
Max power at 6906 rpm (218.1 km/h)
Air temperature – 15º C

:: 2 :: (95 octane fuel) 13/03/2004 - K&N Typhoon air filter installed
Power at flywheel - 135.7 kW (184.4 hp) at 6780 rpm (214.2 km/h)
Power at wheels - 113.7kW (154.4 hp)
Power loss - 22 kW (29.9 hp)
Power (DIN 70020) - 139.8 kW (189.9 hp)
Torque - 213.4 Nm at 4089 rpm
Max power at 7027 rpm (222.0 km/h)
Air temperature – 18º C

:: 3 :: (100 octane fuel) 23/03/2004 - After the ECU upgrade (with K&N Typhoon)
Power at flywheel - 136.4 kW (185.4 hp) at 6722 rpm (212.3 km/h)
Power at wheels - 111.7kW (151.8 hp)
Power loss - 24.7 kW (33.6 hp)
Power (DIN 70020) - 139.6 kW (189.6 hp)
Torque - 217.2 Nm at 4074 rpm
Max power at 7000 rpm (221.1 km/h)
Air temperature – 18º C

Dyno test in 5th gear

Mini Cooper S John Cooper Works, Kahn RS-S 17x7, 205/45 VR17, K&N Typhoon


PS: Please help me

[Coati]

All dynos read differently, and the reconversion of wheel hp/tq to engine hp/tq is an inexact science at best. Did you have a dyno test of your car on that dyno before you had the works kit installed? That would be the best way to tell what's up.

[adn]

All the dyno tests were made in the same place and i only made the test after the kit installed (only the hardware) and the 3 one was made after the ECU upgrade.

I only have 215 Nm instead of 240 Nm and the MCS (stock) have 210 Nm.

[Hobbe]

Quote: Originally Posted by adn

All the dyno tests were made in the same place and i only made the test after the kit installed (only the hardware) and the 3 one was made after the ECU upgrade.

I only have 215 Nm instead of 240 Nm and the MCS (stock) have 210 Nm.

Try a dyno test at some other company to verify the numbers.
Most likely you won't get the same result...

[Coati]

Quote: Originally Posted by adn

All the dyno tests were made in the same place and i only made the test after the kit installed (only the hardware) and the 3 one was made after the ECU upgrade.

I only have 215 Nm instead of 240 Nm and the MCS (stock) have 210 Nm.

But the 240Nm was from a ENGINE dynamometer, and you are using some other brand of wheel dyno. The results will not be comparable, ever. There are all sorts of drivetrain losses, etc, to take into account, and the reconversion I mentioned is someone's best guess at what an equivalency is -- it shouldn't be mistaken for hard fact.

For instance, it's not uncommon for a 227hp WRX (at the flywheel) to show ~160hp (at the wheels) on a tuner's dyno. Same engine, different dyno, and in the WRX's case the AWD makes for a lot of drivetrain loss.

What your readings are showing is that the air filter (and lower octane fuel) and air filter+ECU upgrade did not increase your peak output much. But they don't say anything about the Works kit because you have no data from that dyno for a Stock MCS. Heck, test your car in a different gear.

[bigbaddaboom]

My car showed 188bhp at the fly on one dyno then a month later 231bhp at the fly on another, all documented on this website here:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30225&highlight=byfleet

and here:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34422&highlight=dyno

... nothing changed in between...that's dynos for you.

To get a proper comparison you should only look at the wheel HP. It also would be better to confirm before the JCW install what the power output of your car was so that you could see the difference (I know you said that the car was delivered to you with JCW installed so that point is moot).

Lastly, apparently the JCW ECU upgrade only adds about 1.5 hp so it’s debatable if you would see any real differences from one dyno run to the next.

[adn]

But my only problem is that the mini dealer and garages said to me different things. The importer of Mini in Portugal (Baviera - Porto) said that I didn’t need the ECU upgrade, at the garage they didn’t new that I needed an ECU upgrade. After I’ve searched some information I went there and told then all the things and they asked for the ECU upgrade and then they have installed. But the performances were the same.

I have so many different answers in the Mini Garages / Dealers / Importer, and all told me that I don’t need ECU upgrade.

I’ m a little mad with the Mini Services in Portugal. And the worse is that I know that is necessary the ECU upgrade.

Anyone knows which Dyno facilites are aproved by JCW?

I’m in a state of mind that I go even to a John Cooper Works Garage or to Spain, France, Germany, anywhere in Europe to see if I can find what the problem is.

To me part of the problem is the lack of the ECU upgrade. I’m despaired because it seems that in Portugal they don’t know anything at all about it.

[bluemcs]

5th gear? Is it proper to run a dyno test in an overdrive gear?

Helix always used 4th.

[scooperman_uk]

interesting..

[cityclinic]

Here are the results from our Dyno.

[adn]

cityclinic: Here are the results from our Dyno.



But 152.5 hp it's not much. It's wheel power?

[RedUn]

Quote: Originally Posted by adn

cityclinic: Here are the results from our Dyno.



But 152.5 hp it's not much. It's wheel power?

Yeh I would take that as power at the wheels.