JCW 200hp modified cars wanting to update to JCW 210hp kit.

[setox]

DON'T DO IT!

My car was...
MCS JCW 200Hp kit
15% Reduction Pulley
Miltek 4-1 Headers with High Flow Cat
Alta Intake

It went hard, had great throttle response, pulley hard from low RPM and flew at high RPM.

I just removed the Alta Intake and installed the JCW 210hp upgrade kit.
The Kit consisting of the new Intake System, larger capacity Fuel Injectors and a new ECU map.

Throttle response is lower, Intake noise is whisper quiet, low RPM is slow and Torque feels lower.

I initially though that installing the kit would help the 15% reduction pulley. Bigger Injectors to supply more fuel since the supercharger was spinning faster with the smaller pulley.

Well NO, I don't know where it went wrong?

My next step (come Monday) is to put back on the Alta Intake and remove the JCW air box.
The JCW Box has a smaller size filter (around 15% smaller), is made from paper and it's encased in the cramped air box. There's not much room around the filter unlike the Alta.

I think this might be the problem with the Throttle Response and of course the noise factor.
I just hope that the new ECU map hasn't been revised (lowered) to meet 2005 world pollution laws.

Any one out there know any thing?

I will respond on Monday when it's been swapped.

I had a look into swapping it myself but with the new JCW Intake there's wires running everywhere & I think it has a vacuum line as well. You need power to run the mechanical flap that opens to draw air from the back of the box. The opening is very small, unlike the Alta that uses the entire width.

You would think that I work for Alta the way I am crapping on!

SETOX

[Babes]

mate not sure what the go there is..i have read numerous reviews of what a fantastic upgrade this is..and I have it on order myself. Where in Aus are you?..wondering where the hell mine is if you have yours already...though this is the first review from an aussie..hope the airbox is not any different to what available in the UK

you have me worried now..dont want to spend over $1000 to have it go worse than before ..maybe they stuffed up the ECU remap or something...can you get it reflashed ?..maybe they didnt do the ECU which is why it isnt performing as it should..as you can see im trying to come up with some valid excuse as I want 210bhp!

[Mugami]

by chance do you know which version it was before and after the remap. Majority are using V36. for the JCW cars. But i have heard of a few going to the new V39 which addressed the Yo-Yo problem causing the low end to be slower. in comparison. This sounds like what is going on with your car.

I've purchased the upgrade kit just for the injectors earlier this week.(sold the airbox already) Went in to have the ECU reflashed due to a dyno run our group had with another member who has the JCW then upgraded to the 210 kit. His dyno A/F readings were better than those of us using the MTH programming and 15% pulleys IMHO. (We are currently working with Franz and Alex about this and haven't gotten a response as of yet but were in no real rush or danger.). he was using the V36 for JCW. At the dealership the tech sheet said to use V39 but after reading further down if you had an older car 2003 it was perfered to use V36. Which is what i had my car reflashed to. After the install and i get 500 miles on the new injectors. Going to take it to the Dyno for some final tuning and then possibly switching back to a new set of MTH reprogramming for the car.

Hope this helps some or atleast raise a question or two.

Have fun, Be safe and Keep MOTOV8N

[roland2003]

Hi Mugami, are you running the new bigger JCW injectors on stock injector size programmes,or do you mean you are waiting for Franz to supply MTH map to go with these
injectors? BTW what A/F Ratios did the ' 210 big injector car' give at WOT at 4,5,6,&7000
revs?
If you have a map you liked on std size injectors and you know the flow rate of the new ones (does anyone know what it is?) then the MSPB value can be easily re-scaled.
Regards Roland GT Tuning

[Mugami]

Will be running the bigger injectors on the JCW 200 hp programming which is also what they wanted for the 210 upgrade on the old retrofit cars. But the tech had to enter a new code to unlock the section for the 210 version. .. Also i will be waiting on Franz. I've sent and recieved the reprograming for V 37. which was the stock programing on my car (non jcw) when i went to the 19% but still using the stock injectors. I have those maps already. When myself and 2 othe MTH cars (with 15%) Dyno'ed. We all went off the chart of 10x1 at 5900 rpms. then hit 12.5x1 at 6900 and still going leaner. On one pull i took it to 7200rpm which it read 13.6x1 Where the JCW retro car never went richer that 11x1 at any time. It hit the 11x1 around the same 5900 mark but stayed there all the way to red line. We have contacted Franz about this and he said he would look in on it then get back with us. For me. I'm going to send him the (new to my car) stock JCW programming and specs im currently running. Just incase he has a different map set for it.

I do have plans on going to the dyno with the stock programming and using the SAFC 2 i have installed. To see what i can squeeze out of it. Then switch to the MTH and do the same. This is when i have enough "Fun Money" saved back up. (on a tight budget since christmas)

From what i heard on the CC sizes of the injectors is that the stocks are 340cc and the new ones are 391c but i dont have any conformation on this. If it helps the Siemens part number on the injectors are 0391511 if that helps any. I havent switched them out yet so i dont have the stock numbers off it.

Hope this helps Roland.

[Mugami]

oh for a bit more on the AF on the 210 car. Its own by S2000 from this board. ill see if he can post a pix or i can get a copy of his chart to get better details. I'm Currently going off memory of the chart.

[roland2003]

Thanks Mugami,our car gave between 12 & 12.5;1(on stock software ) all the way up to 7000 .This had 18% pully and a lot more. Im not sure what version it will be,it is a Feb 04
build and never been near a dealer,any idea?
Regards Roland

[greatgro]

Someone posted a very similar experience on the other MINI site. I'm thinking it's the ECU flash. Look into getting an aftermarket one. I couldn't recommend the GIAC more highly.

I really doubt the air intake did anything b/c as been shown, intakes on the MCS don't make more than a few horsepower - certainly not enough to really notice. The Alta is the loudest though which makes the butt dyno feel like it's doing more than it really is.

Get an aftermarket ECU upgrade.

[greatgro]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mugami

Will be running the bigger injectors on the JCW 200 hp programming which is also what From what i heard on the CC sizes of the injectors is that the stocks are 340cc and the new ones are 391c but i dont have any conformation on this. If it helps the Siemens part number on the injectors are 0391511 if that helps any. I havent switched them out yet so i dont have the stock numbers off it.

Stock injectors are 330cc, JCW are 380cc. As far as air/fuel mixtures go, the MCS actually makes more power at high RPMs running RICH not lean. That's why the larger injectors make power. If you have the 19% and the larger injectors, the best route to go is the GIAC ECU. Unbelieveable - it completely transforms the MINI into a refined powerhouse. You won't recognize it.

[setox]

Quote: Originally Posted by Babes

mate not sure what the go there is..i have read numerous reviews of what a fantastic upgrade this is..and I have it on order myself. Where in Aus are you?..wondering where the hell mine is if you have yours already...though this is the first review from an aussie..hope the airbox is not any different to what available in the UK

you have me worried now..dont want to spend over $1000 to have it go worse than before ..maybe they stuffed up the ECU remap or something...can you get it reflashed ?..maybe they didnt do the ECU which is why it isnt performing as it should..as you can see im trying to come up with some valid excuse as I want 210bhp!

Hi Babes,
Personally, I think it's because I have done other Mods to the car.
If you are running a stock JCW car, the update will increase your performance.

I have put back on the Alta Intake, it drives a little better but it's now lagging more down at low RPM. Obviously the larger intake is giving it more air than it's mapped for.

I am going to get a Dyno run.
1st. With the 210hp kit/map/intake, 15% pulley and Miltek headers
2nd. With old 200hp Map, updated 210 kit injectors, Alta Intake, 15% pulley and Miltek headers

As the guys in the US have said, this could be the answer, I HOPE.

Thanks everyone for your help.

SETOX

[Mugami]

Roland for Feb 04 its hard to say .. but the Non-JCW i believe would have been on V38 since V39 came out later. But with what our guy was told when he had the upgrade. His V36.1 was the Latest for the JCW cars and then the sheet i saw showing both V36 for 2003 -earlier and V39 for 2004 - up. Yours is to close to the change for me to say with confidence which version it was.

Also since i havent seen the Difference between the two upgrade kits Pre-2004 and 2004+ .. it could be as little as slight difference in Airbox mounting holes to completly different injectors. I really dont know.

[Doallyn]

I've done the upgrade from 200 to 210 and i must say its pretty good

the mid range is where the improvement is when the intake kicks in at 4500 you really get the wine and its got bags of power

it feels like a much better car for it although the sound is only really there after 4500

the upgrade did nothing for the 0-60 curve thats on the specs its only the mid range 60-100 where it really helps

[roland2003]

THanks for the info Mugami. Just thinking aloud here,if you (or anyone else) runs these
15% bigger flow JCW injectors on a stock injector map, I would have thought it would run mega rich.OK the closed loop part throttle side of things would pull back injector duration,but in open loop at WOT ? Surely to run right the durations need to re-scaled
down for everything bar maybe the top end. Does yours run rich, and what is butt dyno
power like.
Regards Roland GTT

[Mugami]

ok so far in comparing Stock injector with MTH and SAFC2 vs JCW 210 injector with JCW V 36 programing.

With the older set up off line to 5k was ballistic then topped off..Where the JCW version is just the oppisite.. mild unitl about 4k then really comes on and keep coming till redline. After i get around to making two more trips to the Dyno ill see about posting the four runs. stock injectors / MTH..... JCW 210/ V36 JCW (using stock non jcw head) .. JCW210/ MTH... JCW210/MTH and SAFC2

[jlm]

with my rig, with 19%, headwork, 62mmTB, header,I was only able to get 198 whp using eht SAFC and stock injectors. Went to 440cc RC injectors and was able to hit 212 whp. The apexi had to throttle them back, so there is plenty of headroom with the 440's, but the stockers were not able to keep up. 12.5 A/F all the way, WOT.

It doesn't need extra gas at the top, it just needs enough.