My "JCW Jr." car

[MiniMelSF]

I'm working on having a JCW Jr. car....

Here's how it came to be...I wanted the JCW tuner kit, but didn't have the funds now to get one. I happened across a fellow Mini-er selling his JCW catback exhaust (with only 300 miles on it, he had replaced it with a Borla Street) and bought his for $500 (at the dealer, the cost would have been about $1500 for the parts alone). My Audi/BMW mechanic put it on today for $180. I had previously found a new JCW airbox on NAM for a little over $200, and had it installed by the dealer for $225.
So, I paid undet $1200 for both the JCW intake and exhaust, fitted, which I think is a reasonable deal. I wasn't going to attempt installation of either part on my own...

Due to time constraints, I had them installed sequentially, which allowed me to see the effect of each modification. First was the airbox - I really did not notice a change other than that really nice SC whine kicking in above 4500 RPMs. But after the exhaust was put on, I swear that the car seemed to have more low end torque. It could have been my imagination, but I didn't go into this looking for head-snapping increases in power, since with these mods, I knew it wasn't gonna happen - I wasn't expecting anything but a better exhaust sound. But, I was very pleasantly surprised today as I drove off, with the definite sensation that there was more pep when I stepped on the throttle! The other thing I noticed was that the SC whine seemed generally more noticeable throughout acceleration (still retaining that extra kick when I passed 4500 RPM) It was as if the intake and exhaust were matched perfectly with one another to bring out the best in each.

I had been a bit worried about losing the pops and burbles I had grown to love with the stock MCS exhaust, and had had some reassurance from others on this forum to not worry. They were right - I LOVE the sound of the JCW exhaust! The burbles are there, and instead of the fart-sounding pops, I now hear what I would call a "putt" sound. Kind of as if you said the word "BUT" or "PUTT" with the back of your throat closed off. They still occur as regularly as before, but are more subtle and a hint more growl-ly - even nicer than the stock sound!

I am planning on getting Randy Webb to do a 15% pulley for me at a local pulley party later this month. That is the closest size to the JCW pulley (variously estimated in the 13-14% range). I figure after that, my car will more closely approximate the sound and feel of a Works car (now before I get flamed by Works owners, I DO recognize that the JCW supercharger, injectors and ECU add a lot more to the total package!) But, for just over $1600 in parts & installation, I will have a sort of "JCW Jr." version, that looks and sounds and (almost) drives like a Works car...for about a quarter of the price! Since I will have about 190-200 HP, I think it's a good deal for the cost, considering it is still almost all OEM. I know that there are many other types of intakes and exhaust mods to do, but I happen to like having my car as OEM as possible for many reasons, not the least which is a better resale value.

And....I should add that I have the JCW wheels waiting to go on when my runflats wear out. They cost $1000 (used, with about 400 miles on them).

[cooper_s_flyer]

...hi-flow ported and polished head (B&B), and the uprated colder heat range spark plugs.

...And FYI, there is no JCW ECU... just ECU 'programming'.

No 'flame' here for you... just some JCW facts.

[MiniMelSF]

Ooops - you are right - I forgot those "small" bits

Thanks for the correction - the cylinder head, coated-rotor SC, plugs and injectors no doubt make a substantial contribution to a Works car.

That's why I figured mine will be a kind of the near-beer version to the real thing. Sorta like it, but not as good!

[Vitesse]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniMelSF

Since I will have about 190-200 HP ...

How did you come up with the 190-200 BHP figure?

[MiniMelSF]

According to Randy Webb, his pulley adds 16 HP (see his site, webbmotorsports.com ujnder the Alta pulley). The JCW airbox and exhaust together add about 8 - 10 (and some feel that's a conservative number). At the very least, 16 plus 8 is 24 - and added to 168 that's 192. (I have seen some claims that stock HP is in the 168-173 range).
Of course, this is all theoretically speaking. But I can tell you there is indeed a bit more oomph than I had before, not shockingly so, but there.

[cooper_s_flyer]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniMelSF

According to Randy Webb, his pulley adds 16 HP (see his site, webbmotorsports.com ujnder the Alta pulley). The JCW airbox and exhaust together add about 8 - 10 (and some feel that's a conservative number). At the very least, 16 plus 8 is 24 - and added to 168 that's 192. (I have seen some claims that stock HP is in the 168-173 range).
Of course, this is all theoretically speaking. But I can tell you there is indeed a bit more oomph than I had before, not shockingly so, but there.

Get a set of headers (Milltek) and the M7 throttle body & M7 400cc injectors for some discernable 'seat of your pants' acceleration... (and maybe a Conforti Shark Injector)

**Better get BBKs as well !

[MiniMelSF]

I got a PM asking me to compare my "05 JCW Jr." car to a full- on Works car.

Here's how it shakes down, including a few new points I have learned since I started this thread:

1) Unused JCW intake purchased 2nd hand - cost $225, plus $225 for dealer install (playing it safe with the warranty issue).

2) Lightly used (about 400 miles) JCW catback exhaust - cost $500 plus $180 to have my Audi/BMW mechanic install it. Has a great sound and those bling exhaust tips.

3) Alta 15% pulley, part w/installation by Randy Webb - $400 and includes his own 24,000 mile warranty.

4) Total HP is now about 195, about the same as a 2004 JCW car.

5) Almost totally (with exception of the pulley) still JCW/OEM. So resale value retained and very likely increased.

Total cost: $1530.00

Keeping in mind this:

1) The JCW supercharger is EXACTLY the same as the supercharger on the 2005 cars - nothing gained there.

2) The 15% Alta pulley is VERY close to the size of the JCW pulley, so much so that no ECU remapping is necessary.

3) The re-ported cylinder head offers no big HP gain and by some estimates, is not even as good as the stock one. Why have it? Well, it is the single most time-comsuming aspect of the JCW package, so the dealer can now charge an arm AND a leg for the total installation.

4) Colder plugs? OK, nice to have, but again - no big HP gain.

5) Increase of about 20 HP versus the scenario above.

6) JCW badges. Admittedly, these look very cool. I'd want them if I didn't have to buy the package to get them.

Total cost: $6000.00 and up

So what we have, essentially, is $1530 vs. $6000+ (for parts and installation). Are the JCW cylinder head, colder plugs and gain of 20 HP worth the extra $4500? I think not.

With the "extra" $4500, I bought a set of JCW 18 inch wheels (lightly used) for $1000 (which will go on when my RFs wear out), a JCW strut brace (from Canada) for $325 (I'll install it myself), a chromed intercooler cover with the red "S" for $100 (OK, no "Works" badge, I'll live without it... installed by myself), and may yet buy the JCW suspension and still have change!

[Vitesse]

"1) The JCW supercharger is EXACTLY the same as the supercharger on the 2005 cars - nothing gained there"

This isn't actually true the supercharger on all MCS's is same for all models. There isn't any difference between 2003 and 2005.

[MINIAC]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vitesse

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniMelSF

The JCW supercharger is EXACTLY the same as the supercharger on the 2005 cars - nothing gained there

This isn't actually true the supercharger on all MCS's is same for all models. There isn't any difference between 2003 and 2005.

Actually it is true ...

Prior to July 2004 builds there was a difference in the coating used on the vanes of the stock and JCW superchargers. Now there is not ... a 5th generation Eaton supercharger is used for both stock and JCW.

[MiniMelSF]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIAC

Actually it is true ...

Prior to July 2004 builds there was a difference in the coating used on the vanes of the stock and JCW superchargers. Now there is not ... a 5th generation Eaton supercharger is used for both stock and JCW.

Exactly.

[Vitesse]

I stand corrected. John Cooper Garages still advertise on their website that they either alter or replace the supercharger in someway, I suppose thay can get away with due to the fact that they replace the pulley.

Shows what a rip off the whole thing is that neither BMW or JCG were willing to pass the saving of not having to replace the supercharger back to the customer, which I guess is why they are happy to throw in the brakes now with the factory fit option.

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote: Originally Posted by MiniMelSF

So resale value retained and very likely increased.

Sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. Unless you have an official John Cooper Works kit on your car you will not increase your resale value by bolting on a few official and unofficial parts. In fact, because of your modifications you have effected the resale of your car, both price and desirability, in a negative way. Modifying cars can give a very satisfying and rewarding result but anybody who does this has to be prepared to lose money on their cars value. I don't mean to sound harsh but you have to be realistic. You cannot brand your car a "JCW Jr" and expect that to have any credibility when you sell.

[MiniMelSF]

Well, obviously I disagree. First of all, I'm not "branding" my car as anything, it was meant as a "quotes" in a thread title. I would never sell my car as a Works car, I would sell it as a car with many Works modifications added to it!

I do wonder, though - how is my car is so vastly different from a Works car, when I have the exact same air intake, supercharger, exhaust and same sized pulley? Yes, it is not a "true" Works car, I've never claimed that it is. But to suggest that OEM modifications has decreased the value of my car is ludicrous. The single non-OEM mod is the pulley. I can see your argument if the car were loaded up with a half-dozen non-OEM parts. But these were designed for the Mini Cooper by JCW, as performance enhancements, so to suggest that adding them to the car diminishes it's value is nonsensical.

[badboyzbadboyz]

As far as I can tell the only official products you have is the exhaust and air filter so it is indeed very different to a Works car. Seen as the majority of your increased power is coming from your aftermarket 15% pulley, which wasn't designed or fitting by JCW, I don't see how you seriously expect your cars value to have increased Your pulley will void your warentee and TLC with most dealers, therefore lowering its resale value. This is the harsh reality of modifying a car and its the reason the Works kit (1)Costs so much (2)Retains some of its value.

[MiniMelSF]

By the time I'm done my car will have:

JCW intake
JCW exhaust
JCW strut brace
JCW suspension
JCW wheels.
JCW supercharger (well, it IS the same as the JCW in my 2005!)

Hmmm....worth less after these mods? I don't think so!!!

Randy Webb has probably put in more pulleys singlehandedly than anyone else in the States. Over 600 at last count, and not ONE of them has failed. Will mine? Maybe, and I guess if it does my warranty for what was affected by it directly is void. And FYI, some dealerships in the States ARE putting in Alta 15% pulleys. Being a fraction smaller than what JCW offers, obviously it doesn't mean smack to the engine if they are doing it.

If you (and I mean you in the collective sense) want to pay thousands more for a JCW kit, that's your business. You'll get a JCW cylinder head (which you can have, according to several well-known mechanics I know) with colder plugs, a remapped engine, a bit more horsepower and peace of mind. Nothing wrong with that, good for you.

But realize that it is possible to reasonably close to that still using 95% JCW/OEM parts and spending a lot less. BTW, I am still waiting to hear how JCW/OEM upgrades will diminish the value of my car, as you claimed they will do.

"...because of your modifications you have effected the resale of your car, both price and desirability, in a negative way. Modifying cars can give a very satisfying and rewarding result but anybody who does this has to be prepared to lose money on their cars value.