Large Intercooler / Closed Intercooler

[GTT 280]

Hi.

Can anybody explain why some cars have the closed look (no visible cooling fins) intercoolers, whereas some cars go for a larger fin look (lots of visible cooling fins).

I plan to progress to 260+ bhp

What are the technical benefits of both type of intercooler?

[GRSmotorsport]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cooper S Works

Hi.

Can anybody explain why some cars have the closed look (no visible cooling fins) intercoolers, whereas some cars go for a larger fin look (lots of visible cooling fins).

I plan to progress to 260+ bhp

What are the technical benefits of both type of intercooler?

The closed look intercooler' is actually called a charge cooler (in the UK). The basic principle is to pump water around the intercooler keeping the air charge cool. These systems are can be every expensive to manufacture and in my opinion only work using no more than 12-14 psi of boost. These kits contain a charge cooler, water pump, re-rad, water reservoir and rubber hose.

When cars run high boost the water can't be cooled down quick enough because of high air charge temps, this is why you don’t see rally cars using them!

I have been asked to make a charge cooler system for the mini for a company in the USA for experimental purpose's, where it can be tested at higher ambient temps - which I will do in due course. My main concern for the Mini is having a big enough opening for the pre-rad, as this needs to be as big as possible. As we all know the lower grill in the front bumper doesn't give you much space for a big pre-rad and this is where my main concerns lies at present.

The 'larger fin look' is an intercooler, these are cheaper to produce and simple as there isn't anything to go wrong and are more effective when using higher boost pressures than standard.

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by GRSmotorsport

The closed look intercooler' is actually called a charge cooler (in the UK). The basic principle is to pump water around the intercooler keeping the air charge cool. These systems are can be every expensive to manufacture and in my opinion only work using no more than 12-14 psi of boost. These kits contain a charge cooler, water pump, re-rad, water reservoir and rubber hose.

When cars run high boost the water can't be cooled down quick enough because of high air charge temps, this is why you don’t see rally cars using them!

I have been asked to make a charge cooler system for the mini for a company in the USA for experimental purpose's, where it can be tested at higher ambient temps - which I will do in due course. My main concern for the Mini is having a big enough opening for the pre-rad, as this needs to be as big as possible. As we all know the lower grill in the front bumper doesn't give you much space for a big pre-rad and this is where my main concerns lies at present.

The 'larger fin look' is an intercooler, these are cheaper to produce and simple as there isn't anything to go wrong and are more effective when using higher boost pressures than standard.

Doesn't water conduct heat 20 times more efficiently than air? But if the water never gets chance to cool down then it's just going to get hottoer and hotter i suppose. So if i am running 250bhp or more then the best option is to go for a large fin open IC.

Incidentally, why do MINI Sport on their 250bhp car use a charge cooler? I suspect they are using high boost pressures to obtain the 250bhp...

[GRSmotorsport]

The charger cooler thats been designed by Mini Sport is a water jacket wrapped around the original intercooler, I think .

Mini Sport have obviously done some testing to be able to sell this system.

As we all know the main problem with the MSC is the size of the hole through the scoop, if this was bigger then more air would get to the intercooler making it more efficient.

I'm making a charge cooler system for a customer at the moment for another make of car. The customer isn't running anymore than 12 psi of boost, and because of the logistics of this exercise can't use an intercooler, so the charge cooler is the only option.

I'm of the opinion that you need to keep things simple, if you do this then there is less likely hood of things going wrong . But like I said above I will be designing a charge cooler for the Mini at some point in the future, just to see just how effective it is using a 15% pulley, which is the most common pulley used.

[NearlyNN]

I'm sitting at 260+ using a 15% pulley and have some experience with the charge cooler (water-to-air).

When I considered a change I looked at both types, but had the gut feeling that if water was good enough to cool most engines, it would be good enough to cool the iIC air. My dyno runs haven't disappointed me, nor have my track sessions.

I have the Min-madness product. http://www.mini-madness.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=130

This is the second of these types of units they put out. I had the first one, which had a smaller radiator located up high in front of our regualr radiator. Probably did okay, but nothing like the new model, which has a much larger triple-bypass rad down low where it gets great airflow.

Earlier this year I dynoed with just two changes, new header (no cat) and the improved IC water-to-air IC. Gained 17 HP at wheels. How much was due to which mod is not known, but obviously a lot came from the IC.

I have a three position temp guage and can attest to much lower temps. During regular driving, the outlet temps are about 18 degrees F above ambient. Used to be in mid-30's. This is while moving. I track a lot and have seen the temps no higher than 160 when the ambient temp was in the 90's. That is at my very high rev driving style. I have my rev limiter set at 7500. Often run at 7,000 for quite a while. Performance on track has been exceptional.

Again, in my opinion, if water is good enough to cool our engines it's good enough to cool the IC.

[GRSmotorsport]

Quote: Originally Posted by Max

Hmm interesting stuff here

Graham perhaps when you get around to it (eventually I mean ) would it be worth doing a same size charge cooler as the GRS IC, then make a rolling road comparison?

just a thought

Max, yep this is the intention, I've already priced the parts required. I'll keep you guys informed

[MetalMiniMayhem]

would it be worthwhile to have the hood removed and have a much larger hood scoop fabricated?... I'm thinking like a custom job like on the old muscle cars.. more air might = lower ambient temps under the hood as well as more air being forced down onto the intercooler.. I would like to, in the future have a much larger top-mounted IC with an old school style hood scoop

this would look pretty sick on the hood of an 05 MCS..

[GTT 280]

Quote: Originally Posted by MetalMiniMayhem

would it be worthwhile to have the hood removed and have a much larger hood scoop fabricated?... I'm thinking like a custom job like on the old muscle cars.. more air might = lower ambient temps under the hood as well as more air being forced down onto the intercooler.. I would like to, in the future have a much larger top-mounted IC with an old school style hood scoop

this would look pretty sick on the hood of an 05 MCS..

I don't think that that scoop would be of much use. the size of the current MCS inlet scoope seems to be of greater open volume. Also, if you use the scoop with the raised lip, then you get more air forced in, not sure, but probably double, if the lip is as high as the hole is open... if that makes sense..... so perhaps, for this reason, the open fin intercooler with large surface area (which could be upto double that of the OEM and JCW version) in combination with the lipped intake would work wonders. beyond this, you can also intriduce a waterspray onto the open intercooler - alta do one exactly like this.

On the topic of water mist - where is the water reservoir located, and how much do you need? suppose you'd need to top up your water as often as your fuel - :-)