MINI Cooper S with John Cooper Works G_P Tuning Kit

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by virage1

Residuals (and to a lesser extent final popularity) will be impacted by the 2nd generation. It is worth considering that we don't know any details about a 2nd gen Cooper S (or T or whatever) yet. We don't know if this be available straight from launch nor do we know (I don't think) if there will be a JCW package for these new models straight away either. By the time we get around to the GP going into production (let's say June 2006) we may know a lot more about the 2nd gen. If there is going to be a Cooper S with a JCW negine upgrade from Day (let's say September) it will likely more similar if not more powered than the GP. If this is the case, will there be any point getting one if you loose the benefit of rear seats etc when you can getter a bigger, newer, more powerful 2nd gen only 3 months after GP delivery. Worth thinking on...

Definatley.
And i'd be very surprised if theres is such a long lead time between models like we got when the New mini was originally launched.

[AidenL]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyt3

Definatley.
And i'd be very surprised if theres is such a long lead time between models like we got when the New mini was originally launched.

But that is the BMW way - look at the way they launch the 3 series and 5 series - basic models first, then Tourings, then Coupe, then Convertible, then a few new engines maybe, then the M3 for example.........

I think the Works might be a way away after launch.......

Quote: Originally Posted by AidenL

But that is the BMW way - look at the way they launch the 3 series and 5 series - basic models first, then Tourings, then Coupe, then Convertible, then a few new engines maybe, then the M3 for example.........

I think the Works might be a way away after launch.......

Good point...I am trying to rack my brains to see if there were examples where the staggered launch did not happen but I can't think of any! The only reason why it may be different is that I expect the Cooper and Cooper S to be available for launch (I think - please correct if wrong - they were both available in the original launch in 2002) and given John Cooper is a semi-separate organisation they may not be subject to "normal" BMW behaviour

[ABG]

Quote: Originally Posted by AidenL

But that is the BMW way - look at the way they launch the 3 series and 5 series - basic models first, then Tourings, then Coupe, then Convertible, then a few new engines maybe, then the M3 for example.........

I think the Works might be a way away after launch.......

But (as I'm always being told on M2) the works upgrade is just an option - not a different model. Unless they plan to change that in the future I don't see why there would be a delay

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by virage1

Good point...I am trying to rack my brains to see if there were examples where the staggered launch did not happen but I can't think of any! The only reason why it may be different is that I expect the Cooper and Cooper S to be available for launch (I think - please correct if wrong - they were both available in the original launch in 2002) and given John Cooper is a semi-separate organisation they may not be subject to "normal" BMW behaviour

No, there was around a 12 month delay between the earliest Cooper and actually being able to get an S, unless you had the foresight to pre-order and be first on the list. However, I think these times will be far less or even non existant with the next gen car.

[Aurel]

in the US, they pretty much came out at the same time in 2002. I remember distinctly being at a dealer the frst month they opened and seeing both cars there.

to derail this thread a little ... with the North American Auto Show coming up not so long from now ... 4-5 months ... do you think the new 07 MC and MCS's will be ready to debut there?

[THE ITCH]

Paul
Was there any indication that the motors for these cars would be selected for minimum hp? Similar to what they did for some of the limited edition BMW M series.

Also on the spoiler subject you said that it would be carbon fiber on the real car. was there any indication that the style would be the same or possibly like the JCW.
thanks

[Paul]

There was very little on the engine to be honest, beyond what I've already said.

The spoiler will look the same really, just be carbon fibre.

[Brynster]

Just had a call from my dealer, wanting to know if I was still keen to stay on the GP list.
He has been allocated one car but says he is now trying for three for: guy in pole position, me, demonstrator. We compared notes re. info (as revealed on Saturday) and I told him my reservations.

He said BMW (head office) would be calling me... not sure why? This may be my chance to quiz them and pass on opinions. Perhaps, they'll offer me a Limited Edition number? Dealer said he was happy to let me ride out my option until next year when he'd probably want an additional (NON refundable) deposit, presumably to sort out whether I am serious or not....

Some interesting points, n'est ce pas?

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aurel

in the US, they pretty much came out at the same time in 2002. I remember distinctly being at a dealer the frst month they opened and seeing both cars there.
?

yes, i remember all the whinging that went on over the other side of the pond when we started getting Coopers, and the USA only had a few to look at in showrooms. I orderred a Cooper when the car was first officially revealed at the dealership, and had one of the first deliveries in the area (certainly didn't see another on the road for weeks after). I waited 4 months for that Cooper.It was about 2 months later that the first Cooper S hit the show rooms. I'm sure there are some accurate timelines avaiable.

However, development cycles and timelines for production of the new car were slow because it was a totally new production line. I would be very surprised if there are anywhere near such production timeline delays for the new car. Also, the engine and car are already in full development, which, for the S, hadn't been completed at launch time for the Mini. I would be very surprised not to see both the Cooper and the S being available at this new launch next year. Delivery might be a few months but delivery date is kind of irrelevant when your considering whether you should get the 'new' car or not.

The other thing about the new car is I would think theres at least 20 major tuners waiting to get their hands on it to show you how you can boost power by 40% for only a grand or so when its launched, unlike the previous time when JCW had around a year to produce something with very little credible opposition....

[Tonyt3]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brynster

Just had a call from my dealer, wanting to know if I was still keen to stay on the GP list.
He has been allocated one car but says he is now trying for three for: guy in pole position, me, demonstrator. We compared notes re. info (as revealed on Saturday) and I told him my reservations.

He said BMW (head office) would be calling me... not sure why? This may be my chance to quiz them and pass on opinions. Perhaps, they'll offer me a Limited Edition number? Dealer said he was happy to let me ride out my option until next year when he'd probably want an additional (NON refundable) deposit, presumably to sort out whether I am serious or not....

Some interesting points, n'est ce pas?

Why would the dealer want a demonstrator....>>???? No point, as he can't sell more than his allocation of X... which would be 2.

[Brynster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyt3

Why would the dealer want a demonstrator....>>???? No point, as he can't sell more than his allocation of X... which would be 2.

That had occurred to me, too. But you know how they sell their 'demonstrators' --
certainly Audi dealers have with their TT Quattro Sports (run them and sell them). Dunno....

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyt3

No, there was around a 12 month delay between the earliest Cooper and actually being able to get an S, unless you had the foresight to pre-order and be first on the list. However, I think these times will be far less or even non existant with the next gen car.

Ah that's why I couldn't remember - I think I had the first customer S from my dealer

Quote: Originally Posted by THE ITCH

Paul
Was there any indication that the motors for these cars would be selected for minimum hp? Similar to what they did for some of the limited edition BMW M series.

Also on the spoiler subject you said that it would be carbon fiber on the real car. was there any indication that the style would be the same or possibly like the JCW.
thanks

Another thought...small chance that BMW could be just being conservative...my M5 was on paper 507 bhp...in reality every one that was measured independently was coming out between 525 and 530 bhp

Quote: Originally Posted by Brynster

Just had a call from my dealer, wanting to know if I was still keen to stay on the GP list.

Dealer said he was happy to let me ride out my option until next year when he'd probably want an additional (NON refundable) deposit, presumably to sort out whether I am serious or not....

ditto, though I wasn't told to expect a call from BMW. I guess the additional deposit is to discourage people from speculating with their build allocation, unless they're willing to take a risk on not being able to shift it.

For me the crunch will come at Geneva (March 2 - 12 2006) when the final specs are released. I can't see how they can ask for non-refundable deposits before then and, although I expect to be disappointed again, I've got my fingers crossed...