MINI2

EBMCS03 · Oct 22nd, 2002, 11:38 PM

Second Generation MINI eh... why didnt they just make the first generation a RWD??? That would have been much easier...

BruceK · Oct 23rd, 2002, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UCSDxB0i
Second Generation MINI eh... why didnt they just make the first generation a RWD??? That would have been much easier...

Since the original Mini was the pioneer of a transverse engine and FWD (which has been the predominant configuration for most of the cars in the world made for the past 20 years), anything attempt to make the new MINI into a RWD would have fallen flat on its face. (Why it would be as weird as if Porsche decided to try to make a big dumb truck

).

If you want a RWD small car, wait for the 1 Series.

Wynn · Oct 23rd, 2002, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BruceK
If you want a RWD small car, wait for the 1 Series.

That was my first thought, too, but then I though, "Yeah, except that I want a MINI." The difference is the style, of course-- the character of the car. There's certainly something classic and beautiful about the sophisticated look of a BMW or Audi or some VWs, but most of us here are the sorts of unique folk who'd rather drive something that looks fresh, or fun, or taunting, rather than safe and classic.

That, and the MINI is so front-heavy that it would be totally out of control with RWD only. Though, all-wheel drive would be really fun for us, with LSD and sufficient power to drive all the wheels and overcome the additional weight.

Am I wrong in thinking that the MINIs we're buying today are already designed to potentially accommodate AWD in the future?

wynn

BrantV · Oct 23rd, 2002, 02:57 AM

I agree that RWD just wouldn't fit historically with the MINI. Nor would it be very practical to push such a heavily favored front end. Yet an AWD system would be a very nice addition. I want AWD, as coupled with a ski rack, and all the electric gadgets like DSC, it would make for a very fun and capable ski car. Although the MINI's already fairly thirsty given it's size, and I'm not sure how many more miles per gallon I'm willing to give up for fun. There's a chance my daily commute could increase by nearly 30 miles each way before I get my MINI.

From the 3D models on MINIUSA there is indeed space for a transmission tunnel. Although currently it's used for the exhaust plumbing. Seems to me that they could find a way to reroute the exhaust using oval pipes on either side of the center tunnel. So in theory, yes it's a possibility. They could probably do without the seat warmers though.

I'm still looking forward to the possibilities of seeing MINI make a hybrid version. Imagine having an aluminum MINI with electric wheels at all four corners.

Cheers,
Brant

benggolf · Oct 23rd, 2002, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BruceK

Since the original Mini was the pioneer of a transverse engine and FWD (which has been the predominant configuration for most of the cars in the world made for the past 20 years), anything attempt to make the new MINI into a RWD would have fallen flat on its face. (Why it would be a weird as if Porsche decided to try to make a big dumb truck

Did you know that Porsche built tractors at one time?

BruceK · Oct 23rd, 2002, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by benggolf
Did you know that Porsche built tractors at one time?

Yes, I do know that. More tractor trivia: Did you know British Motor Corporation (BMC), maker of the original Mini, modified a Mini A-series engine changing it into a diesel and then put it in a tractor?

Anyway, I think an AWD MINI would be fun.

aMini2Go · Oct 24th, 2002, 10:09 PM

Not only do I think an AWD MINI would be great, but I wish they would do a pickup model with it!

6f7 · Oct 24th, 2002, 10:49 PM

The fact that bmw stayed true to the initial intentions of the MINI--small, transverse engine, fwd, and great handling--is what separates it from all the retro styled cars. I hope they don't deviate to far.

VW (which I think makes some great cars)released the new beetle and it was huge, front engine, water cooled, fwd, plastic beast--the original was a small rear engine, rwd, air cooled economy car. It's not even close to the same car! VW lost sight of the original concept an placed style over what the car was really about. That was their choice, it has made them some bucks, and people love them! The bug is stylish, but I want more than a nice looking car!

I believe people buy the MINI for driving enjoyment over style. "style" is short lived. I hope what the MINI represents continues to survive and doesn't slowly become all style, no soul.

aMini2Go · Oct 31st, 2002, 09:36 PM

6f7,

What you say has a deep impact on me - and I have a tendency to want to agree with you. However, it is the resistance to change that cripples. I believe that there can be both consistency and change - and I didn't just smoke a big 'ol bowl!

I think this can be very well proven by the sheer existence of the MINI (v. the Mini). Variants are really not new. Some of the technology in the MINI is new, yet most folks will agree that, in many ways, BMW did capture the spirit of the Mini. (I know there are hardcore Mini folks out there that will beat me up about that last statement.)

My point is simply that change is not bad - change for the sake of change can be bad.

6f7 · Nov 1st, 2002, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by aMini2Go
My point is simply that change is not bad - change for the sake of change can be bad.

Agreed, 100%. I just hope they don't stray too far and loose sight of the fun aspect of the MINI--That's why most of us bought it and continue to drive around with big dumb grins. Things will evolve and improve. I welcome building upon the idea without changing what makes MINI special to myself and others. If the words "luxury" or "economy" or "bad handling" became associated with the MINI, then the have changed for the worse. This is obvious and hence the "go-cart" references in the marketing--Small and fun as h*ll!

Don't get me wrong, an AWD MINI would be really exciting. I would wait anxiously to test drive one. However, if MINI went this route on one model weight would increase. If this lead to the obesity of the rest of the line, then the "go-cart" may go away.

aMini2Go · Nov 1st, 2002, 12:21 PM

Amen.

Deuce Coop · Nov 7th, 2002, 12:24 AM

Changing the mounting of the motor may not have doomed the MINI. How many of the owners buy them for the heritage compared to it only being a plus. Look at the New Beetle, they totaly relocated the engine from the rear of the vehicle and the sales are bettter than expected.

TomM · Nov 13th, 2002, 06:39 PM

I think now that they have established the FWD car, that a RWD MINI, which would improve vehicle dynamics, giving the car better balance, would be a good step forward. As well as ditching the Chrysler engine for an engine from the BMW stable. Like the 4 banger in whatever the Ti 3 series has now. I'd guess that the balance in the MINI right now is something like 60/40 - taking weight from the front, and moving it to the back can only be good.

Tom

Mini_me · Dec 7th, 2002, 06:51 PM

The MINIs engine is cetainly better than the horrbly harsh and underpowered 1.8 unit in the 316ti compact I drove a few months ago.

Would love to see what 4WD drive and 200bhp could produce in a car that handles like this though!!!

TomM · Dec 8th, 2002, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mini_me
The MINIs engine is cetainly better than the horrbly harsh and underpowered 1.8 unit in the 316ti compact I drove a few months ago.

Would love to see what 4WD drive and 200bhp could produce in a car that handles like this though!!!

I doubt you drove a 1.8ltr engine in a 316ti because those two numbers after the 3 tell what displacement engine it has in it. So in this case a 1.6ltr.

I would kill for 4wd in the MINI though.

Peter S · Dec 9th, 2002, 02:55 AM

Although, just to cause confusion the 316 has been available with 1.6, 1.9 and 1.8 litre engines...name stayed the same for marketing reasons I believe. Current valvetronic engine in the 316 is actually a 1.8 I think, but I could be wrong...

In addition, the 318 has a 2.0 litre engine, and the 320 a 2.2. Suprisingly the 325 is a 2.5 litre, and the 330 a 3.0 litre. Some mistake surely

Peter

Mini_me · Dec 10th, 2002, 03:52 AM

Yes, I think an new valvetronic 1.8 was introduced recently in the 316 to replace a different 1.8. I wonder if I was driving a car with the old 1.8 engine??? might explain why it wasn't so nice and why there is a new engine.

Peter S · Dec 10th, 2002, 04:01 AM

Hi Mini_me,

I haven't driven the 3 series with the 1.8 valvetronic engine, so I don't know whether it is harsher than the previous 316, but the 318 (with a 2 litre version of the engine) seemed very smooth for a 4 cylinder engine, certainly when compared to the engine in my Cooper.

Although the Cooper engine revs easily enough, and has a very linear power delivery, it just doesn't sound smooth. I wouldn't say that it felt harsh though; it just sounds it.

Peter.

Mini_me · Dec 10th, 2002, 04:09 AM

Yes I know what you mean. My Cooper engine was not a particularly smooth sounding engine. Certainly compared to the 1.8T Audi engine in my last car it felt rough

. It is just that the 316 engine felt worse.

I now have an S and a lot of the harshness seems to have been eradicated during the reworking of the engine.

Oct 22nd, 2002, 11:31 PM	#1
Guneenya MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Local Time: 08:52 PM Posts: 14 Offline	... ... Last edited by Guneenya : Oct 8th, 2003 at 02:24 AM.

Oct 23rd, 2002, 12:01 AM	#3 (permalink)
BruceK Moderator & Sponsor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: San Antonio, Texas Local Time: 06:52 AM Posts: 3,759 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by UCSDxB0i Second Generation MINI eh... why didnt they just make the first generation a RWD??? That would have been much easier... Since the original Mini was the pioneer of a transverse engine and FWD (which has been the predominant configuration for most of the cars in the world made for the past 20 years), anything attempt to make the new MINI into a RWD would have fallen flat on its face. (Why it would be as weird as if Porsche decided to try to make a big dumb truck ). If you want a RWD small car, wait for the 1 Series. + 2002 MINI Cooper S - Dark Silver / White roof, Sport, Premium, Lapis blue leather + 1965 Mini Traveller - Tartan Red / White roof, 1275, Cooper S discs, fully restored/renewed Last edited by BruceK : Oct 23rd, 2002 at 09:12 AM.

Oct 23rd, 2002, 03:22 AM	#6 (permalink)
benggolf MINI2 Master Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Richmond, B.C. Local Time: 05:52 AM Posts: 4,062 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by BruceK Since the original Mini was the pioneer of a transverse engine and FWD (which has been the predominant configuration for most of the cars in the world made for the past 20 years), anything attempt to make the new MINI into a RWD would have fallen flat on its face. (Why it would be a weird as if Porsche decided to try to make a big dumb truck Did you know that Porsche built tractors at one time? 2005 Mercedes Benz C55 AMG 2006 BMW Z4 M-Coupe - Premium Pkg. 2007 Honda Fit - Sports Pkg. 2005 V-Star 1100 Custom 2007 Honda 250 Reflex

Oct 23rd, 2002, 09:12 AM	#7 (permalink)
BruceK Moderator & Sponsor Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: San Antonio, Texas Local Time: 06:52 AM Posts: 3,759 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by benggolf Did you know that Porsche built tractors at one time? Yes, I do know that. More tractor trivia: Did you know British Motor Corporation (BMC), maker of the original Mini, modified a Mini A-series engine changing it into a diesel and then put it in a tractor? Anyway, I think an AWD MINI would be fun. + 2002 MINI Cooper S - Dark Silver / White roof, Sport, Premium, Lapis blue leather + 1965 Mini Traveller - Tartan Red / White roof, 1275, Cooper S discs, fully restored/renewed

Oct 24th, 2002, 10:49 PM	#9 (permalink)
6f7 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Apr 2002 Local Time: 06:52 AM Posts: 264 Offline	The fact that bmw stayed true to the initial intentions of the MINI--small, transverse engine, fwd, and great handling--is what separates it from all the retro styled cars. I hope they don't deviate to far. VW (which I think makes some great cars)released the new beetle and it was huge, front engine, water cooled, fwd, plastic beast--the original was a small rear engine, rwd, air cooled economy car. It's not even close to the same car! VW lost sight of the original concept an placed style over what the car was really about. That was their choice, it has made them some bucks, and people love them! The bug is stylish, but I want more than a nice looking car! I believe people buy the MINI for driving enjoyment over style. "style" is short lived. I hope what the MINI represents continues to survive and doesn't slowly become all style, no soul. Last edited by 6f7 : Oct 25th, 2002 at 12:37 AM.

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Oct 22nd, 2002, 11:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
EBMCS03 M5 Extraordinare! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: So Cal Local Time: 05:52 AM Posts: 6,777 Offline	Second Generation MINI eh... why didnt they just make the first generation a RWD??? That would have been much easier...

Oct 23rd, 2002, 01:13 AM	#4 (permalink)
Wynn MINI2 Senior Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Local Time: 06:52 AM Posts: 597 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by BruceK If you want a RWD small car, wait for the 1 Series. That was my first thought, too, but then I though, "Yeah, except that I want a MINI." The difference is the style, of course-- the character of the car. There's certainly something classic and beautiful about the sophisticated look of a BMW or Audi or some VWs, but most of us here are the sorts of unique folk who'd rather drive something that looks fresh, or fun, or taunting, rather than safe and classic. That, and the MINI is so front-heavy that it would be totally out of control with RWD only. Though, all-wheel drive would be really fun for us, with LSD and sufficient power to drive all the wheels and overcome the additional weight. Am I wrong in thinking that the MINIs we're buying today are already designed to potentially accommodate AWD in the future? wynn

Oct 23rd, 2002, 02:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
BrantV MINI2 Senior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pasadena, CA Local Time: 04:52 AM Posts: 560 Offline	I agree that RWD just wouldn't fit historically with the MINI. Nor would it be very practical to push such a heavily favored front end. Yet an AWD system would be a very nice addition. I want AWD, as coupled with a ski rack, and all the electric gadgets like DSC, it would make for a very fun and capable ski car. Although the MINI's already fairly thirsty given it's size, and I'm not sure how many more miles per gallon I'm willing to give up for fun. There's a chance my daily commute could increase by nearly 30 miles each way before I get my MINI. From the 3D models on MINIUSA there is indeed space for a transmission tunnel. Although currently it's used for the exhaust plumbing. Seems to me that they could find a way to reroute the exhaust using oval pipes on either side of the center tunnel. So in theory, yes it's a possibility. They could probably do without the seat warmers though. I'm still looking forward to the possibilities of seeing MINI make a hybrid version. Imagine having an aluminum MINI with electric wheels at all four corners. Cheers, Brant

Oct 24th, 2002, 10:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
aMini2Go MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Local Time: 08:52 AM Posts: 69 Offline	Not only do I think an AWD MINI would be great, but I wish they would do a pickup model with it!

Oct 31st, 2002, 09:36 PM	#10 (permalink)
aMini2Go MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Local Time: 08:52 AM Posts: 69 Offline	change 6f7, What you say has a deep impact on me - and I have a tendency to want to agree with you. However, it is the resistance to change that cripples. I believe that there can be both consistency and change - and I didn't just smoke a big 'ol bowl! I think this can be very well proven by the sheer existence of the MINI (v. the Mini). Variants are really not new. Some of the technology in the MINI is new, yet most folks will agree that, in many ways, BMW did capture the spirit of the Mini. (I know there are hardcore Mini folks out there that will beat me up about that last statement.) My point is simply that change is not bad - change for the sake of change can be bad.

Nov 1st, 2002, 12:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
6f7 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Apr 2002 Local Time: 06:52 AM Posts: 264 Offline	Re: change Quote: Originally posted by aMini2Go My point is simply that change is not bad - change for the sake of change can be bad. Agreed, 100%. I just hope they don't stray too far and loose sight of the fun aspect of the MINI--That's why most of us bought it and continue to drive around with big dumb grins. Things will evolve and improve. I welcome building upon the idea without changing what makes MINI special to myself and others. If the words "luxury" or "economy" or "bad handling" became associated with the MINI, then the have changed for the worse. This is obvious and hence the "go-cart" references in the marketing--Small and fun as h*ll! Don't get me wrong, an AWD MINI would be really exciting. I would wait anxiously to test drive one. However, if MINI went this route on one model weight would increase. If this lead to the obesity of the rest of the line, then the "go-cart" may go away.

Nov 1st, 2002, 12:21 PM	#12 (permalink)
aMini2Go MINI2 Regular Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Local Time: 08:52 AM Posts: 69 Offline	Amen.

Nov 7th, 2002, 12:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
Deuce Coop MINI2 Regular Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Atlanta Local Time: 06:52 AM Posts: 313 Offline	look at the bug Changing the mounting of the motor may not have doomed the MINI. How many of the owners buy them for the heritage compared to it only being a plus. Look at the New Beetle, they totaly relocated the engine from the rear of the vehicle and the sales are bettter than expected.

Nov 13th, 2002, 06:39 PM	#14 (permalink)
TomM - Join Date: May 2002 Location: Northern Virginia Local Time: 08:52 AM Posts: 174 Offline	I think now that they have established the FWD car, that a RWD MINI, which would improve vehicle dynamics, giving the car better balance, would be a good step forward. As well as ditching the Chrysler engine for an engine from the BMW stable. Like the 4 banger in whatever the Ti 3 series has now. I'd guess that the balance in the MINI right now is something like 60/40 - taking weight from the front, and moving it to the back can only be good. Tom

Dec 7th, 2002, 06:51 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mini_me MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Böblingen Stuttgart Local Time: 02:52 PM Posts: 333 Offline	The MINIs engine is cetainly better than the horrbly harsh and underpowered 1.8 unit in the 316ti compact I drove a few months ago. Would love to see what 4WD drive and 200bhp could produce in a car that handles like this though!!! Mini: Drive and feel alive.

Dec 8th, 2002, 09:58 PM	#16 (permalink)
TomM - Join Date: May 2002 Location: Northern Virginia Local Time: 08:52 AM Posts: 174 Offline	Quote: Originally posted by Mini_me The MINIs engine is cetainly better than the horrbly harsh and underpowered 1.8 unit in the 316ti compact I drove a few months ago. Would love to see what 4WD drive and 200bhp could produce in a car that handles like this though!!! I doubt you drove a 1.8ltr engine in a 316ti because those two numbers after the 3 tell what displacement engine it has in it. So in this case a 1.6ltr. I would kill for 4wd in the MINI though.

Dec 9th, 2002, 02:55 AM	#17 (permalink)
Peter S MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sussex Local Time: 01:52 PM Posts: 28 Offline	Although, just to cause confusion the 316 has been available with 1.6, 1.9 and 1.8 litre engines...name stayed the same for marketing reasons I believe. Current valvetronic engine in the 316 is actually a 1.8 I think, but I could be wrong... In addition, the 318 has a 2.0 litre engine, and the 320 a 2.2. Suprisingly the 325 is a 2.5 litre, and the 330 a 3.0 litre. Some mistake surely Peter

Dec 10th, 2002, 03:52 AM	#18 (permalink)
Mini_me MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Böblingen Stuttgart Local Time: 02:52 PM Posts: 333 Offline	Yes, I think an new valvetronic 1.8 was introduced recently in the 316 to replace a different 1.8. I wonder if I was driving a car with the old 1.8 engine??? might explain why it wasn't so nice and why there is a new engine. Mini: Drive and feel alive.

Dec 10th, 2002, 04:01 AM	#19 (permalink)
Peter S MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: West Sussex Local Time: 01:52 PM Posts: 28 Offline	Hi Mini_me, I haven't driven the 3 series with the 1.8 valvetronic engine, so I don't know whether it is harsher than the previous 316, but the 318 (with a 2 litre version of the engine) seemed very smooth for a 4 cylinder engine, certainly when compared to the engine in my Cooper. Although the Cooper engine revs easily enough, and has a very linear power delivery, it just doesn't sound smooth. I wouldn't say that it felt harsh though; it just sounds it. Peter.

Dec 10th, 2002, 04:09 AM	#20 (permalink)
Mini_me MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Böblingen Stuttgart Local Time: 02:52 PM Posts: 333 Offline	Yes I know what you mean. My Cooper engine was not a particularly smooth sounding engine. Certainly compared to the 1.8T Audi engine in my last car it felt rough . It is just that the 316 engine felt worse. I now have an S and a lot of the harshness seems to have been eradicated during the reworking of the engine. Mini: Drive and feel alive.

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