[johnsocal]

What are the chances of an automatic Cooper-S in 2004?

[Paul]

Incredibly slim I'd say.

[Bilbo Baggins]

Why?????

Half of the fun of a MCS is being able to control all of the aspects of the driving experience. This does NOT include the use of a CVT.

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by johnsocal
What are the chances of an automatic Cooper-S in 2004?

I agree with Paul, very slim chances I'd say.

BTW, did you know there already is a large, recent thread on the possibility (or not) of an automatic Cooper S? Have a look:

http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=13867

[uua]

I hate to sound like a snob.

but..

s's are cars for people who want to drive, not for poodles who want to watch the scenery. Yes, all that clutch work can be tiring in rush hour, but that is just the penance, the price you have to pay for all the downshifting glory before the turn on the mountain road and pushing out the other side, wiping the tears of joy from your eyes....

I could prhaps see a shiftronic for disabled people, but nvere an auromatic s.

rant over and out, -uua

[Electrc109]

uua - http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=17389

then come and talk to me....

oh, and I bought the CVT because of the impressive technology, and to keep me from enjoying racing thru the gears---then way over the speed limit. and yes, it does make a difference (now i just accelerate hard occasionally, but not up to 70-80 on city streets)

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by uua
I hate to sound like a snob.

but..

s's are cars for people who want to drive, not for poodles who want to watch the scenery. Yes, all that clutch work can be tiring in rush hour, but that is just the penance, the price you have to pay for all the downshifting glory before the turn on the mountain road and pushing out the other side, wiping the tears of joy from your eyes....

I could prhaps see a shiftronic for disabled people, but never an automatic s.

rant over and out, -uua

I agree with you, but you'd better get ready for an onslaught from those who don't.

If you follow the link I posted above to the other thread concerning an automatic Cooper S, you'll find some people who favor slushboxes over manuals are just a little bit vocal about that choice.

(as you and I are about manuals over automatics)

[Electrc109]

mind you CVT does NOT = slushbox

street driving, and autocrossing, CVTs are great....drag racing isn't so hot, but so what...its a MINI, and MINIs like turns...

[goldmbr]

also agree with uua

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by Electrc109
mind you CVT does NOT = slushbox ...

Understood completely. A CVT, especially the one in the MINI, is a technological marvel, far more advanced than traditional automatic transmissions. Besides MINI, Audi really has an advanced CVT.

[Sejanus]

Quote:

Originally posted by uua
I hate to sound like a snob.

Pity, you seem to be pretty good at it.

And your right Bruce some of us are little bit vocal in defending our choice of nonmanual transmissions, mainly because a certain segment of manual transmissions users insist in resenting and often demeaning our choice (I believe I was just refered to as a poodle in this thread). They seem to be deeply insecure that not everyone enjoys the same aspects of driving that they do. Everytime someone posts something about the CVT or future CVTs instead of just discussing the issue at hand, or just ignoring it, someone has to pipe in that CVTs aren't for "true" drivers, or should never be allowed on a "true" performance car or whatever. It gets pretty tiresome frankly.

[uua]

I did post my comment before reading the entire cvt thread referred to above. Had I done so, I probably would have restrained myself seeing the very strong opinions displayed there. However, after reading those five pages, I had become pretty worked up and agreed with myself even more. That said, I enter the fray...

This cooper S is my fifth mini. (Clubman 1100, 850, rebuilt 1295cc cooper engine that blew its non cooper drivetrain apart, 995 cc north american mini.) All those cars were about taking a small engine, small car and driving it to its maximum ability. It was about having to be in the right gear at the right time at the right speed..., something an automatic transmission can never achieve. A SMG might give you that, but you will still lose the clutch play.

Living in a cold place, one of the worst situations of all is combining a powerful engine, automatic transmission, and snow or ice. Too much torque on acceleration, and the opposing forces of the drivetrain against the brakes on deceleration = very constrained driving technique.

Automatics have their place, -I've got one on my V8 Tundra, -but it is not on a cooper S, which to me signifies the very essence of mini.

Have your supercharged automatic mini, but don't call it a cooper s.

-uu

[eltel]

I bet the Ferrari, Porsche and Maserati drivers all felt the same way when they found out that a slush box was going to be an option for their brands.

I think we've seen that the market tells manufacturers what to in order to survive, and a suitable (non-CVT) auto box has to be on the drawing board. Especially when the new more powerful engines arrive in 2007.

Regards, ElTel

[Electrc109]

who wants to race me and my slushbox, er CVT through a few turns or a set of cones? Consider this. You are on a track where there is a hairpin turn, and you decelerate to the point where first gear would be almost to redline, and second gear would drop way below the power-band (In an archaic manual tranny - just teasing guys ). In my CVT, I am in sport mode, and as soon as I've tucked underneath my competitor I will have the opportunity to take full advantage of the powerband since my continuously varible tranny will adjust accordingly. Yes, I know my CVT is heavier and absorbs more hp, but in regulated racing there are typically weight qualifications.

sound valid to you?

[Halfgreek]

Regardless of what we think here on MINI2 an automatic/cvt/smg will be offered if it will sell. If you look at pretty much every "sport" model out there they offer an automatic. Can you think of any car that doesn't? I'm not sure I can off hand. Anyways, it will be offered because people will buy it.

When I order mine it will be a manual.

[uua]

Next time I'm at my dealership (1.5 hours away) I gonna have to take one of them CVT things for a ride. Sounds interesting..

[CUTiger3]

If you are looking at getting the CVT, then maybe you should wait until MINI releases the 200HP S "A"

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sejanus
....And your right Bruce some of us are little bit vocal in defending our choice of nonmanual transmissions....

Sejanus, I'm not attempting to challenge your preference, but I am curious. Do you know how to drive a manual transmission? Have you ever owned a car with a manual transmission?

Personally, I've owned more than 15 cars and not one has been an automatic (by design). Of course, I have experience driving automatics with my parent's cars when I was younger, my friends cars over the years, tens of rental cars, my wife's cars, etc.

I've also rented cars with the "manumatic" transmisions where the driver doesn't have a clutch pedal, but can, by hand, control upshifts and downsifts, or just leave it "D" and ignore it. I found it to be an interesting, but unfulfilling compromise.

I've still not experienced driving a CVT, so when a local MINI dealer opens early next year, I'll have to take one for a test drive.

Anyway, I'm just trying to understand your point of reference.

[wynnonna]

Quote:

Originally posted by Halfgreek
If you look at pretty much every "sport" model out there they offer an automatic. Can you think of any car that doesn't?

I don't know if it's not considered a "sport" model, but the Audi TT does not come with an automatic transmission.

[wynnonna]

OOPs stand corrected; TT available w/ Automatic "triptronic" Winter 02/03...