[HarryHBMCC]

Hmm, less power from the same displacement (or less). Just what I wanted. Lease buyout, here I come... Long live IndiBlue!

Harry

[Pritch]

As a comment to the last to posts,

firstly, I thought I wrote that they are start of production dates. That means that that is the date (year in this case) where the production starts for that item. As you can imaging, start of sales has to happen after the start of production in order to have something to sell

Concerning the stated power and displacement figures, bear in mind that the power figure only means something together with a power curve, torque curve and the general engine feel. The feel of the engine and the way that it performs can often mask the raw data. - more than the sum of all its parts etc.

There is also a 140hp engine listed, presumably a new Cooper - which is a real improvement.

[Tone]

Finger on the pulse again, David. Thanks for your post.

[goin440]

For the US, it will be interesting to see how the potential consumer percieves a french-powered auto. By the time the new motor will be introduced, MINI may be expecting to have established itself as a quality manufacturer and have an establish level of trust. If MINI achieves this level, the change-over should go without conflict---most new consumers wouldn't even know the difference anyway. However, things could change for the worse if quality doesn't improve (fixing re-occuring niggles) and MINI doesn't overcome its own reputation (thus far, according to post-consumer reports). I think MINI is banking on a lot of risks. This new motor will have the ablitiy to make or break the brand. I expect there to be several other cards up MINIs sleeve. Possibly even a full-fledged (active) marketing plan.

[Fasnia]

I´d like British or German engines for future minis

[Paul]

In case anyone missed it, in addition to the information below (from an old post) it's been announced (last November) by Dr.Panke that the engines for the MINI will be made at Hams Hall in the UK.

Quote:

PSA Peugeot Citroën and BMW Group Join forces to develop and produce a new family of gasoline engines PSA Peugeot Citroën and BMW Group have announced today that they have joined forces to develop and manufacture a new family of small gasoline engines. Peugeot, Citroen and future variants of MINI vehicles will be equipped with engines out of this cooperation project. The engine will benefit from the latest technologies. The BMW Group R&D department will be in charge of designing the engines, and the common project team will be based in Munich. PSA Peugeot Citroën will manage process development, engineering for production as well as procurement. The production capacity will meet the future needs of Peugeot, Citroën and MINI vehicles and could reach up to 1,000,000 units a year. The cooperation which calls for both expertise in automotive technologies and the ability to manage large-scale production, is expected to generate economies of scale and meet both partners' segment specific gasoline engine requirements.

Quote:

PSA Peugeot Citroën / BMW In July 2002, PSA Peugeot Citroën and BMW announced their cooperation to develop and manufacture a new family of small gasoline engines. These engines, benefiting from the latest technologies, will be used in small and mid-range Peugeot and Citroën vehicles, as well as future MINI models. These new engines will be produced in Douvrin, France (Française de Mécanique), in a new production unit with a capacity of 2,500 engines a day.

Quote:

Paris - 01/31/2003 New Family of small Gasoline Engines in Douvrin, France End of 2005, PSA Peugeot Citroën will manufacture the new family of small gasoline engines, developed in cooperation with BMW Group, in Douvrin*, France. The new production unit will have a capacity of 2,500 engines a day. The engines, benefiting from the latest technologies, will be used in small and mid-range Peugeot and Citroën vehicles, as well as future MINI models. Ultimately, the new family of engines could equip a million vehicles a year. The engines will be produced using the “module” manufacturing process, developed for the 2001 launch of the 1.4-liter HDi common rail diesel engine. This process entails developing a highly integrated production unit, easily duplicable at other sites, that comprises machining lines for the main engine components (cylinder head, crankcase, crankshaft, and connecting rod) and the related assembly lines. The new unit will cover around 60,000 square meters and will require an investment of some EUR 430 million. It will employ 850 people at full capacity. Announced in July 2002, the cooperation between the two carmakers became active with the signature in December 2002 by Jean-Martin Folz, Chairman of PSA Peugeot Citroën, and Helmut Panke, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW Group, on the cooperative agreement to develop and manufacture the new family of gasoline engines. * Created in 1969, Française de Mécanique, located in Douvrin, is specialized in mass production of engines. With a workforce of more than 4,000, the mechanical components machining and assembly departments manufacture more than 7,600 engines a day for PSA Peugeot.

[Paul]

Bit more:

18th April 2004:

>Further Rumours on Future MINI Engines
>Continued..

[badboyzbadboyz]

Some interesting points on this thread.

A few people have mentioned the lack of low end grunt with the MCS but I'm quite confused by this. Sure, it hasn't got the torque of a BMW 3.0 litre powerplant or 2.0 diesel but having recently gone out in both a Mazda RX-8 and Honda CTR (two engines which are constantly praised) the MCS has superior grunt to both of them.

Also for the people who bring up political reasons for not wanting a French engine please don't bother replying. Not only is it quite childish and annoying but its certainly not wanted on a car enthusiasts site.

I personally am quite excited to see what the next generation engine will be like and I will be amazed if its not a real peach. The only thing I'm worried about is possibly losing the supercharger in the MCS because it gives great character to the car.

[Paul]

I've had feedback from a few people who've actually driven cars with the new engines (development versions of course) in them, and ALL the feedback is good.

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

I've had feedback from a few people who've actually driven cars with the new engines (development versions of course) in them, and ALL the feedback is good.

Good good. Was there any mention of a whine from a supercharger

[Paul]

Lack of it... have you read the news article from earlier in may? About the multi-stage turbo charging?

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

Lack of it... have you read the news article from earlier in may? About the multi-stage turbo charging?

Yea I have, I was just hoping that wasn't set in stone. R well, never mind

[Pete G]

Currently the fastest expanding sector of the market place in automotive terms is the mass transistion to diesel, thirty percent increase this year alone.

High performance diesels with massive torque curves give real world performance figures that are consistantly usable, under a wider range of road going conditions.
Coupled with exceptional fuel consumption figures, it would be an obvious choice to select one of the most respected manufacturers of such power units ie Peugeot Citroen.

What ever BMW does I'm sure it'll be spot on.

[Pritch]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pete G

What ever BMW does I'm sure it'll be spot on.

That may be, but none of the sources of information that I have seen show anything other than the current diesel engines for the next Mini.

[Pritch]

...and while on the subject of diesels, I still don't understand why everyone is so worried about there being a Turbo in the next CooperS - all the diesels being constantly raved about have turbos which are of course very good.

The problems of massive turbo lag in the past are in reality long gone - there is no reason why the next engine will not be another great engine (just like the current CooperS) - assuming it is 'tuneable'

[badboyzbadboyz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pritch

...and while on the subject of diesels, I still don't understand why everyone is so worried about there being a Turbo in the next CooperS - all the diesels being constantly raved about have turbos which are of course very good.

The problems of massive turbo lag in the past are in reality long gone - there is no reason why the next engine will not be another great engine (just like the current CooperS) - assuming it is 'tuneable'

Absolutely, I agree completely that technology these days almost gets rid of turbo lag altogether and the new engine should be a real good one. Never-the-less, the Supercharger does give the MINI great character, not to mention the sound, and it would just be a bit of a shame to lose that IMO. From the many people I know that ask me questions about my car nearly all of them centre around 1) Handling 2) Supercharger. Still, its something I can live without in the next generation MINI as I'm sure BMW will continue to impress.

[Guanche]

When I first drove my MCS I did experience problems launching from dead stop (it was terribly hot in spain in july, add in climate control and a new engine). Now I either adjusted to it or the engine is run (18K miles) or its not that hot, but I do not experience that anymore. The only thing that remains akeward is some occasional little rattle with premium 98 octane fuels.

Overall I LOVE this engine, good consistent torque from 3500 on, stretching to 6900 rpms, instant response time to throttle, awesome supercharger and engine sound, an engine that loves to rev up.

For the next few words please bear in mind that im just a rookie and I may be wrong, but still id like to express my idea and my view that the mini was designed for the mountain road. For these roads you want a power curve as lineal as possible, with its torque curve flat and ending as high as possible in the rev range: what I consider state of the art engines like Honda's VTEC or even Renault's 2.0 16v (yep the french make great engines and great chasis) equipped in its Clio Sport.

Since only a 1.6Litre can be fitted a supercharged was added, torque is no longer flat but the engine still feels lineal and it revs high up. Would that remain with a turbo? where would be peak power, 5800? would power loss be noticeable by 6300? Id say yes while now the engine can be pushed to 7000.

Turbo engines are superior when it comes to clocking and are more comfy to drive, but I prefer another approach for the S, an engine with a high-revving attitude. BMW never liked turbos either.

Alternatively (this might be insane), if turbo is a must and being low end power that "beefs" people, why not adding an extra low pressure turbo to the existing MCS engine? I believe thre are some cars out there that run on both turbo and compressor (thought I dont know what mileage would be like).

[fab]

I can't believe some people complain about the new engines because they are french.
That's pretty retarded.
We are in a global economy and you are using things everyday from every part of the world, some of them are french, or parts of them are french (or whatever) and you don't even know it. No wonder there are wars with this kind of attitude.
I really don't understand the whole anti-french thing going on. Especially from car enthusiasts.
I am pretty excited about the new engines, Peugeot and citroen are making very strong engines, always in the first places in WRC with years of experience in developping four cylinders that are powerful, torquey, and yet economic. In the other hand BMW makes some of the best engines in the world with the best enginering. IMO, the collaboration between this two manufacturers is spot on, very exciting and can only be sucessful.

[V8bruiser]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pritch

...and while on the subject of diesels, I still don't understand why everyone is so worried about there being a Turbo in the next CooperS - all the diesels being constantly raved about have turbos which are of course very good.

The problems of massive turbo lag in the past are in reality long gone - there is no reason why the next engine will not be another great engine (just like the current CooperS) - assuming it is 'tuneable'

Well of course the great thing about engines with turbos is that they allow you to adjust the boost(power) by contolling the wastegate through the ECU - virtually for free. As long as the turbo has a short spool-up time (or is small with light weight, low inertial mass internals) it will actually be better - There's little to beat the feeling of acceleration on acceleration that you get from a good turbo installation. I believe the BMW technology will cut the spool-up time to the point where lag is imperceptable - for me though, bring on the lag and the rush!
V8

[Nameless]

Is there a definite date for the new engines yet? - Want a convertible but gonna wait for new engine.