MINI2

Tone · Nov 25th, 2005, 08:19 PM

Surely it's the power to weight ratio that we should be looking at - not just bhp.
Would have thought the MCS and Works models would show up favourably with the competition.

badboyzbadboyz · Nov 25th, 2005, 11:37 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Tone

Surely it's the power to weight ratio that we should be looking at - not just bhp.
Would have thought the MCS and Works models would show up favourably with the competition.

But the MINI isn't a light car. Sure the engine will lose some weight but weight will be gained in other areas like strengthening of the chassis and improved safety equipment.

I don't doubt the Works will fair up nicely against the competition but I don't think you should have to shell out for a Works to keep up with competition, which in some cases is cheaper than a standard S. I would like to see a Standard Cooper S holding its own against the best hot hatches and the Works blowing them away. I mean, you don't buy an M3 and then spend another £10,000 in order for it to compete. The Works should be something extra special, over-the-top - for enthusiasts ... not something which is needed to keep up with everyone else

Pritch · Nov 26th, 2005, 08:22 AM

Ignoring the fact that the Mini never was about ultimate speed (which you can't do in this most countries anyway - 140mph in a Mini in Germany is plenty quick enough really) - it was an all round quick car (compare the ride, even on 17" wheel, with the Civic for example), which also looks great.

As Paul said, the power figure was reported here maybe 18mths ago? It was also reported a long time ago that the weight is going down in the new car, not up. The engine sits lower, to help handling etc. etc.

If you bought a current and liked it, there is no reason for the new car to be worse.

Paul · Nov 26th, 2005, 08:36 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz

But the MINI isn't a light car. Sure the engine will lose some weight but weight will be gained in other areas like strengthening of the chassis and improved safety equipment.

I don't doubt the Works will fair up nicely against the competition but I don't think you should have to shell out for a Works to keep up with competition, which in some cases is cheaper than a standard S. I would like to see a Standard Cooper S holding its own against the best hot hatches and the Works blowing them away. I mean, you don't buy an M3 and then spend another £10,000 in order for it to compete. The Works should be something extra special, over-the-top - for enthusiasts ... not something which is needed to keep up with everyone else

That's unfair, as the "M" series cars are pretty much the "Works" of their BMW ranges.

badboyzbadboyz · Nov 26th, 2005, 10:04 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Pritch

As Paul said, the power figure was reported here maybe 18mths ago?

If you bought a current and liked it, there is no reason for the new car to be worse.

I did vent my feelings about this when the news was released very early on by MINI2, but I'm just frustrated to see BMW havn't altered things. If I do ever return to the hot hatch segment looking for a car I'm concerned I will be tempted by something else due to superior performance it will offer. Driving a car like this is all about getting as many thrills out of it as possible. The MINI was very unique when it came out and drives wonderfully but the competition are catching up, with cars like the 182, and the standard is being raised. I wouldn't be prepared to have to shell out £4,000 to fit a Works to my S just to get the same thrills.

I don't think the new car will worse at all. I'm sure it'll improve an already great car but the power output it disappointing for sure. I just dont see why its unreasonable to expect more power from a middle/high price range hatch.

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

That's unfair, as the "M" series cars are pretty much the "Works" of their BMW ranges.

But the M series is its own model with uprated suspension, engine, gearbox, body styling etc so I see it like the top range MINI, the S. The Works is an engine upgrade, something above the norm - more of an M3 CSR, thats how I always thought of it anyway.

Tone · Nov 26th, 2005, 11:58 AM

I don't know as much about the market as once did, but where is all this light-weighted 200bhp reasonably priced competition? You speculate Tony - perhaps I've lost the plot - but where is it all in the metal?

There is the Focus ST and its kind, but the stats I've seen would not appear to eclipse the MINI IMO.

blair88mph · Dec 9th, 2005, 09:42 AM

the 2007 s works is soposed to get 230 hp

Pritch · Dec 9th, 2005, 02:00 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by blair88mph

the 2007 s works is soposed to get 230 hp

I don't think it will be that much - and I would be surprised if it is out in time to be a 2007 MY - remember how long the current works took after the R53 SOP !!

Paul · Dec 13th, 2005, 05:47 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyt3

The BMW/PSA engined car has just featured on 5th gear.

They confirmed the power as 170bhp/240nm torques

Is this news???

Only just realised/noticed this torque figure is the same as the 143 bhp Turbo engine they're also producing.

So the 170 and 143 engines have the same torque?

badboyzbadboyz · Dec 14th, 2005, 04:48 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett

Only just realised/noticed this torque figure is the same as the 143 bhp Turbo engine they're also producing.

So the 170 and 143 engines have the same torque?

I didnt notice that. Hmmm, this is very dissapointing if correct seen as torque is power which you actually use everyday

I cant figure out if the next generation Cooper is a bargain or the S is a bit pointless

Grimbo · Dec 30th, 2005, 02:33 AM

Honestly can't see the next S being a let down, current one is a gem in it's own terms and they won't wnat to loose that.

What I don't get is everyone moaning about the power on the new one. The current S is plenty powerful enough for an S. The car handles like a dream and the power is matched to it. More power would be great in a straight line, but we're talking corners here. Why overcook it?
And comparing it to a Clio Sport, a fantastic car, but it's not really similar enough to warrant comparison. The Clio's designed to be a hot hatch everywhere and it's raw. The S isn't like that. It'll easily play ball with the current Clio but it's also the refined luxurious car that we love!! And even if it wasn't as quick.. does it really matter?

More power required. Get the Works.. and with a turbo this time it should be a nice hike in power!! Just hope they don't put too much in there to upset the balance.

badboyzbadboyz · Dec 30th, 2005, 01:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Grimbo

What I don't get is everyone moaning about the power on the new one. The current S is plenty powerful enough for an S. The car handles like a dream and the power is matched to it.

I don't think people are moaning about the lack of power, just showing their disappointment. I'm not expecting to see a 240bhp VXR type Cooper S but an increase in power is not an unreasonable expectation in the world of the hot hatch market. I always felt my MCS could handle more power without the need to modify anything other than the engine so its a shame to see that go to waste, and as you said more power would be great in a straight line also.

Tommy_Gun · Jan 24th, 2006, 07:56 PM

http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/co...ail.aspx?id=59

looks like me may get a look at the new engine before the new mini arrives. (Look at the last sentence).

I wonder if that is the engine that will be in the rumoured cooper turbo or is it a detuned version of the new MCS engine.

bart_mcb · Feb 13th, 2006, 09:11 PM

Just read the press kit once again for PSA and BMW on the new engines.
It says the new engines will be built in PSA Engine Plant of Douvrin in France.
The engines are designed an developed by BMW with latest BMW engine technology, especially for cylinder head. Production development and production itself is done by PSA.
When reading the launch press kit for the Peugeot 207 some weeks ago it says two of the engines will be available for the 207 by late summer 2006: 1598 cm³ DOHC 16v direct injection Turbocharged Twin-scroll low pressure (110kW/150BHP) and the the same non-turbo version with fully variable valve drive (85kW/115BHP)
I expect there will be a joint presentation at the Douvrin plant of the engine range by PSA and BMW just before summer holidays.

shijinmini · Feb 17th, 2006, 11:22 AM

China wants to buy the plant in Brazil where MINI engines were built

http://nytimes.com/2006/02/17/busine.../GH1ObAk6pF6FQ

bobdobbs · Feb 17th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by bart_mcb

Just read the press kit once again for PSA and BMW on the new engines.
It says the new engines will be built in PSA Engine Plant of Douvrin in France.

I thought it was confirmed the new MINI engines would be built at the Hams Hall plant in the UK:

" I’m delighted to be able to confirm that we are starting to make preparations to produce an additional family of four-cylinder petrol engines for a growing family of future MINI variants that will be built at our vehicle plant in Oxford."

http://www.mini2.com/index.php?page=newsitem&newsid=348

Paul · Feb 17th, 2006, 12:30 PM

It was confirmed a long time ago they would be made in the UK, that hasn't changed.

elmo · Apr 7th, 2006, 10:08 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by kshapiro

I'd put up a stink..no French engines in my MINI. In fact, no french wine in it either. I've always thought their cars were crap, but the political reasons are even stronger. Even though I oppose this war, the French have always hated us for saving their ass. If it weren't for the Brits and Americans, therer wouldn't be a freakin' France.

Kshapiro, the majority of the french people (I would say 80%) appreciate that the U.S . came to rescue. I live in France and disagree with your point of view.

You will have to buy a diesel mini to get quality. The diesel PSA engine is unbeated on performances and reliability. The future mini Diesel engine is already in many cars. I would not say the same of that new engineered petrol engine. It will take time for this engine to become flawless.

I really hope BMW takes the diesel engine "as is", they did a controversed work with the Toyota D4D ... (less torque at low rev on the Mini than on Toyota Yaris ...)

Prowse · Apr 19th, 2006, 11:12 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by bobdobbs

I thought it was confirmed the new MINI engines would be built at the Hams Hall plant in the UK...

Just as well that they're not making the engines at the UK S**troen/Pug plant, which is now set to close, costing 2,300 jobs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/c...re/4920740.stm

I'm guessing there'll not be too many Brits wanting to buy S**troen/Pug cars now, this may affect the sales of the 07 MINI's once they realise that it's got a Pug engine.

Tonyt3 · Apr 19th, 2006, 11:20 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Prowse

............., this may affect the sales of the 07 MINI's once they realise that it's got a Pug engine.

i cant see anyone other than those laid off employees giving a monkeys personally.

Nov 25th, 2005, 08:19 PM	#141
Tone MINI2 Master Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dorset, U.K. Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 5,795 Offline	Surely it's the power to weight ratio that we should be looking at - not just bhp. Would have thought the MCS and Works models would show up favourably with the competition. "I get by with a little help from my friends"

Nov 26th, 2005, 08:22 AM	#143 (permalink)
Pritch MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 282 Offline	Ignoring the fact that the Mini never was about ultimate speed (which you can't do in this most countries anyway - 140mph in a Mini in Germany is plenty quick enough really) - it was an all round quick car (compare the ride, even on 17" wheel, with the Civic for example), which also looks great. As Paul said, the power figure was reported here maybe 18mths ago? It was also reported a long time ago that the weight is going down in the new car, not up. The engine sits lower, to help handling etc. etc. If you bought a current and liked it, there is no reason for the new car to be worse. David 2003 Mini Cooper S - DS/B

Nov 26th, 2005, 11:58 AM	#146 (permalink)
Tone MINI2 Master Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Dorset, U.K. Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 5,795 Offline	I don't know as much about the market as once did, but where is all this light-weighted 200bhp reasonably priced competition? You speculate Tony - perhaps I've lost the plot - but where is it all in the metal? There is the Focus ST and its kind, but the stats I've seen would not appear to eclipse the MINI IMO. "I get by with a little help from my friends"

Dec 9th, 2005, 02:00 PM	#148 (permalink)
Pritch MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: England Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 282 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by blair88mph the 2007 s works is soposed to get 230 hp I don't think it will be that much - and I would be surprised if it is out in time to be a 2007 MY - remember how long the current works took after the R53 SOP !! David 2003 Mini Cooper S - DS/B

Jan 24th, 2006, 07:56 PM	#153 (permalink)
Tommy_Gun MINI2 Regular Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Hatfield Heath Local Time: 10:16 PM Posts: 242 Offline	http://www.parkers.co.uk/choosing/co...ail.aspx?id=59 looks like me may get a look at the new engine before the new mini arrives. (Look at the last sentence). I wonder if that is the engine that will be in the rumoured cooper turbo or is it a detuned version of the new MCS engine. http://www.myspace.com/scorpionking1982 People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people

MINI2

Fuel for your MINI obsession

For discussing planned and possible MINI variants

Today
Sponsors	Sponsored Links Registered members do not see Google Ads posts, they can also post messages, pictures, and classified adverts. Register your free account today and become a member of MINI2 - MINI Forum

Nov 25th, 2005, 11:37 PM	#142 (permalink)
badboyzbadboyz MINI2 Jedi Master Join Date: May 2003 Local Time: 10:16 PM Posts: 1,257 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Tone Surely it's the power to weight ratio that we should be looking at - not just bhp. Would have thought the MCS and Works models would show up favourably with the competition. But the MINI isn't a light car. Sure the engine will lose some weight but weight will be gained in other areas like strengthening of the chassis and improved safety equipment. I don't doubt the Works will fair up nicely against the competition but I don't think you should have to shell out for a Works to keep up with competition, which in some cases is cheaper than a standard S. I would like to see a Standard Cooper S holding its own against the best hot hatches and the Works blowing them away. I mean, you don't buy an M3 and then spend another £10,000 in order for it to compete. The Works should be something extra special, over-the-top - for enthusiasts ... not something which is needed to keep up with everyone else

Nov 26th, 2005, 08:36 AM	#144 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 40,555 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by badboyzbadboyz But the MINI isn't a light car. Sure the engine will lose some weight but weight will be gained in other areas like strengthening of the chassis and improved safety equipment. I don't doubt the Works will fair up nicely against the competition but I don't think you should have to shell out for a Works to keep up with competition, which in some cases is cheaper than a standard S. I would like to see a Standard Cooper S holding its own against the best hot hatches and the Works blowing them away. I mean, you don't buy an M3 and then spend another £10,000 in order for it to compete. The Works should be something extra special, over-the-top - for enthusiasts ... not something which is needed to keep up with everyone else That's unfair, as the "M" series cars are pretty much the "Works" of their BMW ranges.

Nov 26th, 2005, 10:04 AM	#145 (permalink)
badboyzbadboyz MINI2 Jedi Master Join Date: May 2003 Local Time: 10:16 PM Posts: 1,257 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Pritch As Paul said, the power figure was reported here maybe 18mths ago? If you bought a current and liked it, there is no reason for the new car to be worse. I did vent my feelings about this when the news was released very early on by MINI2, but I'm just frustrated to see BMW havn't altered things. If I do ever return to the hot hatch segment looking for a car I'm concerned I will be tempted by something else due to superior performance it will offer. Driving a car like this is all about getting as many thrills out of it as possible. The MINI was very unique when it came out and drives wonderfully but the competition are catching up, with cars like the 182, and the standard is being raised. I wouldn't be prepared to have to shell out £4,000 to fit a Works to my S just to get the same thrills. I don't think the new car will worse at all. I'm sure it'll improve an already great car but the power output it disappointing for sure. I just dont see why its unreasonable to expect more power from a middle/high price range hatch. Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett That's unfair, as the "M" series cars are pretty much the "Works" of their BMW ranges. But the M series is its own model with uprated suspension, engine, gearbox, body styling etc so I see it like the top range MINI, the S. The Works is an engine upgrade, something above the norm - more of an M3 CSR, thats how I always thought of it anyway.

Dec 9th, 2005, 09:42 AM	#147 (permalink)
blair88mph Gettin an 07 Join Date: Dec 2005 Local Time: 04:16 PM Posts: 7 Offline	the 2007 s works is soposed to get 230 hp

Dec 13th, 2005, 05:47 PM	#149 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 40,555 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyt3 The BMW/PSA engined car has just featured on 5th gear. They confirmed the power as 170bhp/240nm torques Is this news??? Only just realised/noticed this torque figure is the same as the 143 bhp Turbo engine they're also producing. So the 170 and 143 engines have the same torque?

Dec 14th, 2005, 04:48 PM	#150 (permalink)
badboyzbadboyz MINI2 Jedi Master Join Date: May 2003 Local Time: 10:16 PM Posts: 1,257 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett Only just realised/noticed this torque figure is the same as the 143 bhp Turbo engine they're also producing. So the 170 and 143 engines have the same torque? I didnt notice that. Hmmm, this is very dissapointing if correct seen as torque is power which you actually use everyday I cant figure out if the next generation Cooper is a bargain or the S is a bit pointless

Dec 30th, 2005, 02:33 AM	#151 (permalink)
Grimbo MINI2 Senior Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Derby Local Time: 10:16 PM Posts: 454 Offline	Honestly can't see the next S being a let down, current one is a gem in it's own terms and they won't wnat to loose that. What I don't get is everyone moaning about the power on the new one. The current S is plenty powerful enough for an S. The car handles like a dream and the power is matched to it. More power would be great in a straight line, but we're talking corners here. Why overcook it? And comparing it to a Clio Sport, a fantastic car, but it's not really similar enough to warrant comparison. The Clio's designed to be a hot hatch everywhere and it's raw. The S isn't like that. It'll easily play ball with the current Clio but it's also the refined luxurious car that we love!! And even if it wasn't as quick.. does it really matter? More power required. Get the Works.. and with a turbo this time it should be a nice hike in power!! Just hope they don't put too much in there to upset the balance.

Dec 30th, 2005, 01:10 PM	#152 (permalink)
badboyzbadboyz MINI2 Jedi Master Join Date: May 2003 Local Time: 10:16 PM Posts: 1,257 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Grimbo What I don't get is everyone moaning about the power on the new one. The current S is plenty powerful enough for an S. The car handles like a dream and the power is matched to it. I don't think people are moaning about the lack of power, just showing their disappointment. I'm not expecting to see a 240bhp VXR type Cooper S but an increase in power is not an unreasonable expectation in the world of the hot hatch market. I always felt my MCS could handle more power without the need to modify anything other than the engine so its a shame to see that go to waste, and as you said more power would be great in a straight line also.

Feb 13th, 2006, 09:11 PM	#154 (permalink)
bart_mcb MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ostend Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 19 Offline	Just read the press kit once again for PSA and BMW on the new engines. It says the new engines will be built in PSA Engine Plant of Douvrin in France. The engines are designed an developed by BMW with latest BMW engine technology, especially for cylinder head. Production development and production itself is done by PSA. When reading the launch press kit for the Peugeot 207 some weeks ago it says two of the engines will be available for the 207 by late summer 2006: 1598 cm³ DOHC 16v direct injection Turbocharged Twin-scroll low pressure (110kW/150BHP) and the the same non-turbo version with fully variable valve drive (85kW/115BHP) I expect there will be a joint presentation at the Douvrin plant of the engine range by PSA and BMW just before summer holidays. Bart de Graeve MINI CLUB of BELGIUM P.R. Office M.v. Bourgondiëlaan 50 B-8820 TORHOUT Belgium e-mail: b_de_graeve@yahoo.com fax: +32 26105188

Feb 17th, 2006, 11:22 AM	#155 (permalink)
shijinmini MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sandy Hook, CT Local Time: 06:16 PM Posts: 256 Offline	China wants to buy the plant in Brazil where MINI engines were built http://nytimes.com/2006/02/17/busine.../GH1ObAk6pF6FQ

Feb 17th, 2006, 12:09 PM	#156 (permalink)
bobdobbs MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Castro Valley, CA Local Time: 03:16 PM Posts: 38 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by bart_mcb Just read the press kit once again for PSA and BMW on the new engines. It says the new engines will be built in PSA Engine Plant of Douvrin in France. I thought it was confirmed the new MINI engines would be built at the Hams Hall plant in the UK: " I’m delighted to be able to confirm that we are starting to make preparations to produce an additional family of four-cylinder petrol engines for a growing family of future MINI variants that will be built at our vehicle plant in Oxford." http://www.mini2.com/index.php?page=newsitem&newsid=348

Feb 17th, 2006, 12:30 PM	#157 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 40,555 Offline	It was confirmed a long time ago they would be made in the UK, that hasn't changed.

Apr 7th, 2006, 10:08 AM	#158 (permalink)
elmo MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Local Time: 10:16 PM Posts: 26 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by kshapiro I'd put up a stink..no French engines in my MINI. In fact, no french wine in it either. I've always thought their cars were crap, but the political reasons are even stronger. Even though I oppose this war, the French have always hated us for saving their ass. If it weren't for the Brits and Americans, therer wouldn't be a freakin' France. Kshapiro, the majority of the french people (I would say 80%) appreciate that the U.S . came to rescue. I live in France and disagree with your point of view. You will have to buy a diesel mini to get quality. The diesel PSA engine is unbeated on performances and reliability. The future mini Diesel engine is already in many cars. I would not say the same of that new engineered petrol engine. It will take time for this engine to become flawless. I really hope BMW takes the diesel engine "as is", they did a controversed work with the Toyota D4D ... (less torque at low rev on the Mini than on Toyota Yaris ...)

Apr 19th, 2006, 11:12 AM	#159 (permalink)
Prowse MINI2 Master Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Lancs Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 1,495 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by bobdobbs I thought it was confirmed the new MINI engines would be built at the Hams Hall plant in the UK... Just as well that they're not making the engines at the UK Stroen/Pug plant, which is now set to close, costing 2,300 jobs. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/c...re/4920740.stm I'm guessing there'll not be too many Brits wanting to buy Stroen/Pug cars now, this may affect the sales of the 07 MINI's once they realise that it's got a Pug engine.

Apr 19th, 2006, 11:20 AM	#160 (permalink)
Tonyt3 Track addict Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Hants Local Time: 11:16 PM Posts: 6,257 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Prowse ............., this may affect the sales of the 07 MINI's once they realise that it's got a Pug engine. i cant see anyone other than those laid off employees giving a monkeys personally. http://www.mini2.com/forum/models-co...ming-soon.html

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Future MINI petrol engines to be Peugeot Citroen & BMW Joint venture.	Paul	Future Variants	42	Jul 30th, 2002 10:37 AM