[cjds]

when bmw engines for cooper?

[ssimms]

Actually, it was announced last year that BMW and Daimler/Chrysler are not extending their engine agreement. (remember they are fierce competitors and don't like each other, so they don't want to play in the same sandbox anymore)
I don't remember a date but, BMW is currently engineering the new motor in-house and has signed a partnership agreement with Peugot/Citreon for building the new motor once engineering is complete.
I thought the time bantered around was 2005 for the first BMW engineered engines to be used. But, the original agreement with D/C was supposed to be through 2007 so that may be the new motor date, honestly I am not sure.

[HarryHBMCC]

They could continue to use Tritec engines in Coopers and ONE's while using the new engines in S's. We'll find out as it happens, I'm sure.

Originally there were plans to use the BMW K1200 motorcycle engine or a derivative but they determined that the engine was too tall to fit under the hood/bonnet. The MINI was designed first from the outside and then it seems they tried to squeeze everything inside that packaging.

Harry

[Paul]

Quote:

Originally posted by HarryIndiBlue
They could continue to use Tritec engines in Coopers and ONE's while using the new engines in S's. We'll find out as it happens, I'm sure.

Originally there were plans to use the BMW K1200 motorcycle engine or a derivative but they determined that the engine was too tall to fit under the hood/bonnet. The MINI was designed first from the outside and then it seems they tried to squeeze everything inside that packaging.

Harry

The news article/press release from BMW with regards the next generation MINI petrol engines can be found here: http://www.mini2.com/news/news.php?id=130

As for the BMW K1200 motorcycle engine, I don't know where that information comes from, but I've not heard it before. I know they used a bike engine in the BMW Z13 project car, but that was a whole different design.

They said the K-Series doesn't fit, and worked on the new engine with Chrysler from early on.

[HarryHBMCC]

Perhaps I'm confusing the BMW motorcycle engine with the Rover K series engine? I tried finding what I thought was a source but failed. Sorry for the misinf if wrong.

Harry

[ssimms]

Using the Tritec in the One and Cooper and using the new motor for the S is an interesting idea but, the main reason for starting another cooperative effort was to get away from Daimler, not because the motor was bad. (Although suspicion has been that BMW hasn't been happy with the motor since early on.)
So, IMHO, we will not see two different gasoline motor manufacturers in the same line of cars. They don't like being "in bed" with Daimler, no how.
Now, that said, it would be possible to continue on with the Tritec until the contract is up in the One or something while introducing the 'new' Peugot/Citreon motor in the Cooper and S but, it is still not likely in my view that they would leave it in the Cooper since the largest BMW market globally is the US and I think the US group would put up a stink. Again, IMHO.
Remember the E36 M3 was never slated to come to this country until the BMW CCA and dealer groups wrote in and complained. (Granted it wasn't with the Euro motor but, at least the engine was BMW derived.)
Fun to consider, either way. I will be on the waiting list shortly for an Open S version or whatever they will call the new engined higher output.

[tip]

As seeing that Daimler C was suppose to use the same engine in there own vehicles and are not now. The enginge being used exclusively by BMW. yes, some part or parts designed out of house wouldn't the engine still or is tecnically a BMW engine in our Minis.


Charles

[kshapiro]

Quote:

Originally posted by ssimms
Using the Tritec in the One and Cooper and using the new motor for the S is an interesting idea but, the main reason for starting another cooperative effort was to get away from Daimler, not because the motor was bad. (Although suspicion has been that BMW hasn't been happy with the motor since early on.)
So, IMHO, we will not see two different gasoline motor manufacturers in the same line of cars. They don't like being "in bed" with Daimler, no how.
Now, that said, it would be possible to continue on with the Tritec until the contract is up in the One or something while introducing the 'new' Peugot/Citreon motor in the Cooper and S but, it is still not likely in my view that they would leave it in the Cooper since the largest BMW market globally is the US and I think the US group would put up a stink. Again, IMHO.
Remember the E36 M3 was never slated to come to this country until the BMW CCA and dealer groups wrote in and complained. (Granted it wasn't with the Euro motor but, at least the engine was BMW derived.)
Fun to consider, either way. I will be on the waiting list shortly for an Open S version or whatever they will call the new engined higher output.

I'd put up a stink..no French engines in my MINI. In fact, no french wine in it either. I've always thought their cars were crap, but the political reasons are even stronger. Even though I oppose this war, the French have always hated us for saving their ass. If it weren't for the Brits and Americans, therer wouldn't be a freakin' France.

[tip]

If it weren't for the French you would not have half the United States. Should I draw your attention to Louisiana and Florida.

Lets get back on topic,thanks.

Charles

[PigLick]

I don't know, I've never driven any Peugots, but you don't see many Chryslers winning WRC events, do you?

PigLick

[eltel]

http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/Mic...04&siteid =26

Apparently the engines aren't too bad, according to the article about the World's Best Engines of 2002.

Regards, ElTel

[HarryHBMCC]

Quote:

Originally posted by tip
As seeing that Daimler C was suppose to use the same engine in there own vehicles and are not now. The enginge being used exclusively by BMW. yes, some part or parts designed out of house wouldn't the engine still or is tecnically a BMW engine in our Minis.

Charles

You sure about that Charles? Check the world markets and you'll find the Tritec Pentagon engine in Neon 1.6L and PT Cruiser 1.6L cars in Europe, South Africa and elsewhere. In places where gas is more expensive even than Canada, 1.6L is a fairly large engine, believe it or not, and the Pentagon has excellent HP/L performance, low emissions and good gas mileage.

Harry

[tip]

Harry,

I was just going on what the dude from BMW Canada told me. I was always under the impression that the engine was going into pt cruiser and others. But he said not. So that was what I was going on.

Charles

[HarryHBMCC]

Don't believe everything your dealer tells you (some would say anything...).

A quick search on "Neon 1.6" and "PT Cruiser 1.6" yields boatloads of links, for example:

http://linkfm.co.za/car49.html
http://www.el-mundo.es/motor/2001/214/1002095954.html

http://www.km77.com/marcas/chrysler/...616V/texto.asp
http://www.infomotori.com/a_11_IT_700_1.html

DCX enjoys touting the BMW engine.

Harry

[cooper4us]

I think the current 1.6L TRITEC engine is terrific and yes, it is still a BMW engine. The TRITEC was co-developed with then Chrysler Corporation in the late 1990's before the hostile takeover in 1998 by Daimler.

The 1.6L TRITEC Supercharged engine (MCS) was just awarded one of the 10 best engines in the world by the highly respected Ward's Automotive publication magazine.

I think everyone's beef with this engine is the lack of low end torque. Otherwise it has excellent fuel economy, durability (Metal Timing chain instead of a rubber timing belt), reliability and good power and performance above 2,000 RPM).

[cooper4us]

The 1.6L TRITEC engine is currently manufactured in Brazil. In Fact it is the only non-European component found in the current MINI.

[smallcarlover]

I just put a deposit on a Mini Convertible on Saturday! While talking to the salesman, he said the new Peugot engine with an aluminum block should come out somewhere around the same time as the launch of the convertible, between the end of the 2004 model year and the beginning of 2005.

Though I am in the first allocation group, I might push back to get the new engine. Only time will tell.

Pete

[Paul]

That will be clever, because for all I've seen they dont plan to start making the engines until the end of 2005.

Quote:

PSA Peugeot Citroën and BMW Group Join forces to develop and produce a new family of gasoline engines


PSA Peugeot Citroën and BMW Group have announced today that they have joined forces to develop and manufacture a new family of small gasoline engines. Peugeot, Citroen and future variants of MINI vehicles will be equipped with engines out of this cooperation project. The engine will benefit from the latest technologies.

The BMW Group R&D department will be in charge of designing the engines, and the common project team will be based in Munich. PSA Peugeot Citroën will manage process development, engineering for production as well as procurement. The production capacity will meet the future needs of Peugeot, Citroën and MINI vehicles and could reach up to 1,000,000 units a year.

The cooperation which calls for both expertise in automotive technologies and the ability to manage large-scale production, is expected to generate economies of scale and meet both partners' segment specific gasoline engine requirements.

Quote:

PSA Peugeot Citroën / BMW

In July 2002, PSA Peugeot Citroën and BMW announced their cooperation to develop and manufacture a new family of small gasoline engines. These engines, benefiting from the latest technologies, will be used in small and mid-range Peugeot and Citroën vehicles, as well as future MINI models.

These new engines will be produced in Douvrin, France (Française de Mécanique), in a new production unit with a capacity of 2,500 engines a day.

Quote:

Paris - 01/31/2003

New Family of small Gasoline Engines in Douvrin, France


End of 2005, PSA Peugeot Citroën will manufacture the new family of small gasoline engines, developed in cooperation with BMW Group, in Douvrin*, France. The new production unit will have a capacity of 2,500 engines a day.

The engines, benefiting from the latest technologies, will be used in small and mid-range Peugeot and Citroën vehicles, as well as future MINI models. Ultimately, the new family of engines could equip a million vehicles a year.

The engines will be produced using the “module” manufacturing process, developed for the 2001 launch of the 1.4-liter HDi common rail diesel engine. This process entails developing a highly integrated production unit, easily duplicable at other sites, that comprises machining lines for the main engine components (cylinder head, crankcase, crankshaft, and connecting rod) and the related assembly lines.

The new unit will cover around 60,000 square meters and will require an investment of some EUR 430 million. It will employ 850 people at full capacity.

Announced in July 2002, the cooperation between the two carmakers became active with the signature in December 2002 by Jean-Martin Folz, Chairman of PSA Peugeot Citroën, and Helmut Panke, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW Group, on the cooperative agreement to develop and manufacture the new family of gasoline engines.


* Created in 1969, Française de Mécanique, located in Douvrin, is specialized in mass production of engines. With a workforce of more than 4,000, the mechanical components machining and assembly departments manufacture more than 7,600 engines a day for PSA Peugeot.

[moorlockx]

So far I'm more than happy with the current motor. However, if they want to change something, I think a small increase in displacement should be examined. I'd really like to see this configuration in 1.8 instead of 1.6.
As far as a French connection goes, I know I wouldn't own one. After being in the automotive game for quite some time,I just don't have faith in car products made in that country. I know Renault used to put together some mean race engines and Citroen actually had the first front wheel drive car, but as far as the rest of their industry goes, it's been pretty lackluster (here in the US).
A BMW designed motor might be nice. Except, that in doing that, the price tag for the car would probably jump considerably. I'd hate to see a $30,000 Mini since the affordability is one of the cars best selling points.

[eltel]

I wonder what JCG's plans are for enhancements to the new engine? So they will be producing two different kits? There's bound to be confusion if they're both called the JCW kit. When will they start development and how long will this new version of the JCW kit take to get to market?

Perhaps that's why the current JCW kit is so expensive, since they will only have a few years in which to recoup their development?