[JBUSA]

Been a member since last year but haven't posted. Learned more than dealer from this site. Was at MINI dealer in Charleston, South Carolina USA test driving MINI S (I'm number 38 for S, build date 12JUL02)last weekend and was informed JCW upgrade will not be available from MINI dealers because BMW was going to produce an M version of the Cooper and asked if I wanted to be put on list. UHHH,yes! Was told already had people on list for M and convertable MINI. No estimate of M version componets or date of availablility.

Test drive fast and wet.
JB

[macncheese]

Ive heard the following rumours:

1. No JCW upgrade due to M version
2. No M version due to JCW upgrade.
3. M version will be done by JCW.

If you've learned more from here than the dealer, why are you believing him now!?
--
Cheese

[JBUSA]

Didn,t say I believed her. Should have put question mark on post heading. She seemed quite certain of the issue as it was passed to her through her dealer network and she wanted to put me on the list. I thought they are looking for numbers of potential buyers in order to make a call on production.

[michaeld]

I was at a magazine store yesterday checking out all sorts of car mags- I read two articles that also hinted at an "M" version- one of those being "Mini Magazine" (I forget the actual name- but the publication is dedicated to the Mini). I purchased the magazine called "Bimmer" (deciated to BMW...) becasue of the Cooper S article which is very good. Here's a tidbit:

"The motor itself is a work of art, and even in supercharged form should prove reliable and long-lived. As engine and drivetrain leader Johannes Guggenmos explained, "It is not stressed at this output. We have over-engineered many of the critical parts to ensure long component life".... "Modifications include a forged steel crankshaft, stronger main bearings and harder valve seats. The oil sump capacity is greater, as some lubricant is contained within the oil/water-cooling matrix, and an internal oil spray system cools the undersides of the pistons."

Sounds like there's more potential in this engine and the "M" rumors to push to a higher output might be attainable... hmmmm....

Deposit down on an 'S' last week!

[LMB]

An M Version of the Mini is going to happen.

[Paul]

It would certainly mark a huge turn-a-round and come down form the boys at BMW.

That's finally saying 'yes ok, it's not a mini, it's a BMW'. Be a bit of a kick in the teeth for the John Cooper Works team too, would it not.

[LMB]

Quote:

Originally posted by Paul_Mullett
It would certainly mark a huge turn-a-round and come down form the boys at BMW.

That's finally saying 'yes ok, it's not a mini, it's a BMW'. Be a bit of a kick in the teeth for the John Cooper Works team too, would it not.

I still think it is going to happen.

[michaeld]

In the article I think it said 220(ps)- not sure how that translates into HP- And just to add more fuel to the speculation conversation- how much would the "M" cost? 15% premioum over S? I know it's all speculation but it's fun right?

[KarmanS]

Attended a BMW of N. America presentation last week and the response was that "JCW is to MINI as M is to BMW." So if BMW does get their motorsport division to make one, it will be quite a surprise.

either way, if it's going to happen, we would only benefit

[Basil]

Odd, very odd.

How will they market such a MINI. One's, Cooper's and Cooper S's in the area of the BMW dealership with "MINI GARAGE" and a "M-INI" sitting in the "BMW" area

At least it would put an end to the MINI v Mini debates

[Darryl]

I think you'll find they'll bring out a version that incorporates the JCW engine mods into a overall package with a slightly different body kit, wheels etc.

I mean why have they priced the R90 rims off the planet mmm??

Whether they call it a M or a Works version is open to debate though.

[Possum]

There would have to be an agreement between BMW and JCW for the right to use the "Cooper" name, as was the case with the old coopers.

So what would they do, have a JCWorks Cooper and JCWorks Cooper S, with a seperate Mini M? Surely it couldn't be a Cooper M.

I think they'll be one and the same. What's the point of having JCW and M? They'll only compete among themselves.

Hey, maybe that's a good thing! If the M has more HP and is priced competitively with the JCW kit, then perhaps JCW might bring up their HP or lower their price?

Then we can throw Alpina into the mix. Three motor racing divisions tuning one car can't be a bad thing, especially for choice and price.

I know JCW is on this forum. He should know what the deal is, having had to work with BMW to get his kits (and the Cooper name) off the ground.

[WAY]

The JCW kit will just be engine and exhaust mod. An M car would be substantially more than that. It would probably have a trick LSD (like on the M3) and even better suspension than what is already on the S. Maybe they will slot in a SMG gear box as well, or at least just change the gear ratios. I have read that M is running around in a car that easily produces 220bhp, and have plans for 240bhp. With that kind of power, surely if nothing else there would be some sort of LSD on the front wheel. Here's hoping!!!

[BrantV]

Quote:

Originally posted by Possum
Then we can throw Alpina into the mix. Three motor racing divisions tuning one car can't be a bad thing, especially for choice and price.

Having three choices would br great. Like IRL, where the cars are pretty much identical, with the big exceptions being drivers/crews and the engines. Would be wonderfull to see MINI only races, where different tuners could compete. Make them endurance races too, since most of us will be wanting to drive ours daily.

As for JCW, a MINI Cooper deserves to be tuned by JCW. Although I wouldn't mind a MINI M either.

What would I like to see?

1st) Bigger breaks (disks, calipers, pads, and lines) Make it stop faster before trying to make it go faster.

2nd) Larger cut openings and wheel arches to accommodate larger and more common tire sizes. Having more grip would help prevent the engine from cutting the power in hard acceleration.

3rd) Lighter materials. Carbon and instead of chrome. The less there is to move, the quicker you can do so. Doesn't hurt the gas mileage ether. I'd still want all the creature comforts, just made from lighter weight materials.

4th) Electronic Dampening Control on the shocks, so we don't have to sacrifice ride comfort 100% of the time. If you take a few hundred pounds off the car, the sprung/unsprung weight ratio is going to change making the ride harsher.

5th) More horsepower. Anything north or 200 would be nice. 220-240 would be incredible for a car like this especially if it went on a diet.

6th) Full time 4WD. There's already a tunnel for the drive shaft. Wouldn't it be nice if they used it. Especially for those of us who live in regions where you can snow ski 10-11 months of the year. Some years when it's milder, year round.

7th) More down force. I'm not asking for bigger rear spoilers. I'd rather see some underbody air channeling. By my own rough calculations, there are a little over 10,000 square inches under the vehicle. Probably 25% less is you account for the wheels, and the areas where you can't obstruct suspension travel. To get 100 lbs of down force, at sea level, You'd only have to lower the air pressure under the car by 0.01333 PSI, or about 0.09%. When it comes to pushing down on the tires to add grip, I'll take air pressure vs. weight any day.

I'll take any combination as long as any increase in horse power is offset by bigger breaks.

Cheers,
Brant

[toomanycarz]

and JCW will be the tuner for MINIs. You simply will not see an M or a Roundel on a MINI period. Love to be proven wrong, but it's not going to happen.

2

[Basil]

Quote:

Originally posted by toomanycarz
and JCW will be the tuner for MINIs. You simply will not see an M or a Roundel on a MINI period. Love to be proven wrong, but it's not going to happen.

2

Hmmm....so it's ok to have BMW pressings and stamps inside the car, but not on the outside ?.

The cars a MINI granted, but there is simply no denying the product is "Made by BMW", regardless of how hard MINI marketer's have tried to distance it. Nothing to stop BMW from changing tack and having a MINI with a little M-Power badge on it. Can anyone explain why a Car "made by BMW" that is called a MINI with a JCW badge and tuned by JCW is any more acceptable than a MINI with an M badge and tuned by M-Power!!? . They are just badges and tuning companies. The relationship would as I see it, be little different. So maybe it can happily sit in the MINI garage after all. Alpina models surely will adopt the same physcology.

Any takers ?

[pcl9097]

Should I:
1) still buy/finance my S on order?

2) lease my S so I can get a M when/if it comes out?

[Darryl]

You've only have to drive the MINI to tell its of BMW heritage.

I'm a little unsure if BMW will put its M badge on a version though, The MINI as I see it is BMW's way to put out a FWD car without tainting its image with the purists as a sporting RWD manufacturer.

[BrantV]

And if MINI does decide to come out with a higher performance version of the MINI, I hope it doesn't include any non essential cosmetic changes. No over the top bolt on body kits unless they provide a measurable performance gains.

Please, please, please. Give me a wolf in sheep's clothing. Something stealthy.

[AER]

Quote:

Originally posted by macncheese
Ive heard the following rumours:

1. No JCW upgrade due to M version
2. No M version due to JCW upgrade.
3. M version will be done by JCW.

If you've learned more from here than the dealer, why are you believing him now!?
--
Cheese

No 3 will never happen, M div will never let another 'tuner' develop and tune a car then sell it under the 'M' banner! It will either be an M version, or a JCW version, there'll be no mix of the two.