Help - Warranty Claim

[twinimini]

Looking for some input concering a warranty claim I'm fighting with my dealer. My 2004 MCS has developed a serious leak in the front of the catalytic coverter & the dealer is trying to blame the failure on the aftermaket exhaust system, saying that it does not fit properly & is putting stress on the converter. The system is one that R-Speed sold for a short time a couple years ago. The system was very high quality, and fit straight on with no issues whatsoever at the time of installation. The fact that the entire system is mounted on rubber mounts & the down pipe/converter is equiped with a flexible coupling makes me feel that this is just a lame attempt to dodge a warranty claim.
Any input would be greatly appreciated as the bill to replace the cat is $1200!

[venox22]

1200$ to replace the cat, thats steep!!

They may have a point about the exhaust, it could well be that, that has cuased the cat to break, then again it might not. But trying to prove that will be very very hard!!

The fact you have an aftermarket non OEM part attached to the part that has broken will make it difficult to get anything done warranty wise, in my opinion anyway!! sorry dont mean to be Mr Negative

[Scrogg]

Sorry, but I agree.

A manufacturers warranty will only ever cover factory-fitted mechanical parts. Regardless of whether you can actually prove that your non-factory exhaust didn't cause the problem or not the manufacturer is quite a liberty to reject any warranty claim where there is an element of doubt as to the cause.

Have you tried contacting the manufacturer of the exhaust? If their part, designed specifically to fit the MINI, has caused a problem then surely they are just as liable, if not more so, than MINI?

I think you may have a fight on your hands with this one!

[Rakey]

Warranty and Guarantees over here mean that the manufacturer has to prove that its not their parts which are at fault first if the car is still within its warranty period.

If they prove it with written documentation then the owner has to then prove what is at fault.

So ask them for the written documentation that proves the fault is caused by the exhaust, as that is your right to have this if they want to put the blame onto something else.

[JG.26]

Sorry but would have to go along with the others I'm afraid. It does sound like the aftermarket exhaust may have caused some issues with the cat. Haven't heard of many failing, some I think have had a cat melt through performance upgrades.

Not to be a downer on anyone who wants to do perormance mods but you can't blame BMW for not honouring to repair faults caused by non BMW parts being fitted, afterall it does say somewhere in the TLC booklet that any modifications will void the warranty. After the problems I had with an aftermarket exhaust basically not fitting properly, it just ain't worth the bother and potential problems. The MINI is fast enough for most occasions as it is. Keep it standard where mechanical parts are involved.

Good luck with BMW.

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Penguinblue (original)

Sorry but would have to go along with the others I'm afraid. It does sound like the aftermarket exhaust may have caused some issues with the cat. Haven't heard of many failing, some I think have had a cat melt through performance upgrades.

Not to be a downer on anyone who wants to do perormance mods but you can't blame BMW for not honouring to repair faults caused by non BMW parts being fitted, afterall it does say somewhere in the TLC booklet that any modifications will void the warranty. After the problems I had with an aftermarket exhaust basically not fitting properly, it just ain't worth the bother and potential problems. The MINI is fast enough for most occasions as it is. Keep it standard where mechanical parts are involved.

Good luck with BMW.

true, I'm totally on the manufacturers side, but they have a legal obligation to prove that it is the exhaust that has categorically caused the fault, they can't just lay blame on it been that

I know as I run a service centre, not a car service centre, but the same laws apply to any product you buy that has a warranty/guarantee, if a product fails you have to prove what has caused it if you are going to say its not a manufacturing problem.

[Parc77]

I may have been facing this very problem...I have a Milltek cat back exhaust system which was blowing where the bracket / join is in the main pipe before the back box ...after sorting this out with engineering sealant and tightening up the bracket the blowing had gone...sometime later it appeared to be blowing again quite badly...but this was coming from nearer the front end where the CAT/Manifold is .... I believe there may have been a minor crack there already and this was just made worst once the other part of the exhaust that was blowing was fixed and caused more pressure and made the crack worse..hence it blowing more

So I went down to my local exhaust place that fit stainless exhausts, they got it up on the ramps and found a hairline crack in the pipe between the Cat and Manifold ... I knew this could potentially cost me a small fortune, ive had them weld the hairline crack and all is now fine.

I knew that if I went to Mini id have a fight on my hands trying to claim on the warranty and there are very few "real" mechanics out there now that actually fix broken parts instead of charging you horrendous labour rates and just replace the supposed broken part as they wouldnt have a clue how to fix it and the manufacturer/dealer dont seem to do things like this anymore as its not worth there while.

If you dont have any joy, it might be possible for you to take the car elsewhere to an exhaust specialist or something?

[JG.26]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey (original)

true, I'm totally on the manufacturers side, but they have a legal obligation to prove that it is the exhaust that has categorically caused the fault, they can't just lay blame on it been that

I know as I run a service centre, not a car service centre, but the same laws apply to any product you buy that has a warranty/guarantee, if a product fails you have to prove what has caused it if you are going to say its not a manufacturing problem.

Would agree, but I guess the odds are stacked on BMW's side if they prove that a non genuine part has caused a genuine part to fail. I guess then it's upto to you to try and prove otherwise which would mean employing and idependent assessor?........does that make sense . I guess also it's whether you have a mod friendly dealer, mine basically said an aftermarket exhaust should be ok, ie it's pretty unlikely to cause and serious mechanical problems, whereas when I metioned an induction kits it was a definite no no. At the end of the day it's your car but just bear in mind that if you get problems associated with aftermarket bits then BMW are pricey when it comes to putting things right.

eg..........Eisenmann cat back at £875 with £100 to fit.
Increase in Insurance premium £300

New exhaust never fitted correctly, ie blowin, knocking etc etc after numerrous trips to the supplier. New exhaust melts rear bumper apron.

Replacement new stock S exhaust with new bumper trim including removal of aftermarket exhaust and labour to fit etc £700 from BMW dealer.

So basically what you would think a straightforward mod cost me nearly 2k.
A complete waste of money and time messing around. Lesson learn't.

My dealer said they do a good trade in repairing MINI's where mods have gone wrong.

[Parc77]

Have to admit though sometimes aftermarket parts and after market parts fitted incorrectly can be very costly along with insurance inreases.
I like to think I did my homework on this as i bought the Milltek in a group buy (saved money) cost me £30 to have it fitted ...it was fitted correctly just believe the bracket had come loose on my exhaust. If I got that hacked off with it id locate another S exaust off somewhere like M2 or ebay or someone who was selling theres and have someone fit it for £30.

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Penguinblue (original)

Would agree, but I guess the odds are stacked on BMW's side if they prove that a non genuine part has caused a genuine part to fail. I guess then it's upto to you to try and prove otherwise which would mean employing and idependent assessor?........does that make sense . I guess also it's whether you have a mod friendly dealer, mine basically said an aftermarket exhaust should be ok, ie it's pretty unlikely to cause and serious mechanical problems, whereas when I metioned an induction kits it was a definite no no. At the end of the day it's your car but just bear in mind that if you get problems associated with aftermarket bits then BMW are pricey when it comes to putting things right.

eg..........Eisenmann cat back at £875 with £100 to fit.
Increase in Insurance premium £300

New exhaust never fitted correctly, ie blowin, knocking etc etc after numerrous trips to the supplier. New exhaust melts rear bumper apron.

Replacement new stock S exhaust with new bumper trim including removal of aftermarket exhaust and labour to fit etc £700 from BMW dealer.

So basically what you would think a straightforward mod cost me nearly 2k.
A complete waste of money and time messing around. Lesson learn't.

My dealer said they do a good trade in repairing MINI's where mods have gone wrong.

yup, all makes sense and all totally true

One of the reasons I went JCW this time, just not worth the hassle and agrevation

[Parc77]

Have to agree with ya Rakey.... I should have done better at school then I would have had a nice shiny JCW

[Jifster]

Hi peeps, JUST for the record.......

The dealership IS within it's rights to refuse a warranty claim IF it can be decided that the afterfit part COULD have been a contributary factor. They do not need to 'prove' anything, all they have to do is point to your exhaust, and say "thats connected to the cat, so it might have been the exhausts fault". That is good enough for them under the BMW terms and conditions of the warranty. By the way, Penguin?? There is NOTHING in the TLC Tems and Conditions regarding warranty claims, only regarding voiding the TLC agreement
I have a highly modified GTT Cooper S, and i've had my fair share of warranty 'battles'. On the whole, most dealers are actually mod friendly, JUST AS LONG AS THE MODS CAN'T BE DEEMED AS A CONTRIBUTARY FACTOR TO ANY OEM PART FAILURE.
Bottom line? You mod at your own risk...... but My god it's worth it
Hope all that helps?

[JG.26]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey (original)

yup, all makes sense and all totally true

One of the reasons I went JCW this time, just not worth the hassle and agrevation

Yupp I was going to have a performance kit fitted to the S and pretty much made my mind up, that was until someone on here posted about their engine letting go and so it's history now. The way I think about is if it ain't broke why fix it. I have even passed on the JCW kit now, do I really need a few bhp more, spent most of the time in traffic jams anyways .

[JG.26]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jifster (original)

Hi peeps, JUST for the record.......

The dealership IS within it's rights to refuse a warranty claim IF it can be decided that the afterfit part COULD have been a contributary factor. They do not need to 'prove' anything, all they have to do is point to your exhaust, and say "thats connected to the cat, so it might have been the exhausts fault". That is good enough for them under the BMW terms and conditions of the warranty. By the way, Penguin?? There is NOTHING in the TLC Tems and Conditions regarding warranty claims, only regarding voiding the TLC agreement
I have a highly modified GTT Cooper S, and i've had my fair share of warranty 'battles'. On the whole, most dealers are actually mod friendly, JUST AS LONG AS THE MODS CAN'T BE DEEMED AS A CONTRIBUTARY FACTOR TO ANY OEM PART FAILURE.
Bottom line? You mod at your own risk...... but My god it's worth it
Hope all that helps?

By all means it its worth it if all goes well, but I reckon I must be getting too old to bother with hassles when the car is running fine in the fist place, I think to myself why not buy a more powerfull car in the first place than messin about taking the car apart for the sake of going a few mph faster.

[Jifster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Penguinblue (original)

By all means it its worth it if all goes well, but I reckon I must be getting too old to bother with hassles when the car is running fine in the fist place, I think to myself why not buy a more powerfull car in the first place than messin about taking the car apart for the sake of going a few mph faster.

I fear we're going off-topic, but I think you are missing the point? I don't want another car, I love the looks, image, and handling of the Mini. I personally just find it too slow in standard form. Now it's modded, i put an official 30-70mph time (measured on a calibrated Race Tech AC22) of just 5.33secs, making my car faster through the mid range than a BMW Z4 3.0, Porsche Boxster, Golf R32, Imprezza WRX, and EVERY standard hot hatch on the market at present? Considering I bought the car 2nd hand, and including the mods, it's cost me just short of £17k? So buy a 'faster car', for the same money???? .... Any suggestions?

As for reliability, I've had my GTT conversion for over 16 months now, with NO PROBS (mechanically) WHATSOEVER..... I guess you pays yer money.... you takes yer chance