LPG Autogas conversions for MINIs...

[hyperbluejames]

Has anyone had this done? I searched the forums and Scooper did in 2002...but that was a fair while ago. I wonder if anyone has had this done? If so, where does it all fit?? What's the fuel consumption/performance like?

This is all out of curiosity, simply because by the sounds of things LPG is the way to go, but noone seems to be having it done to their car. Only 44.1p a litre compared to 88p per litre where I live.

What are peoples' views on it?

James

[humph]

Prior to buying my MINI I had three LPG cars, Focus, Omega, Rover 45. First two were converted before I bought them and were pretty good and damn cheap to run. Got the Rover converted myself under the governments Powershift grant scheme with official Rover kit and ran it to +150k before the head gasket went and I moved on. The Rover was a fantastic conversion that had had an awful lot of development put into it with it's own separate ECU for the gas system etc. This development was done whilst BMW were in charge. I believe official BMW kit is also a good conversion. All this kit amounts to a lot of extra weight so be prepared to lose some performance. Before making any decisions check the refueling map on the links below to check that there are LPG stations in the areas where you travel. I say this as LPG tanks are usually small (45L) and the actual mpg of the car will probably drop by approx 5% when on LPG. Result more frequent fill ups so you need the stations handy. I would go for BMW endorsed kit as my early none official conversions and those of friends have had niggly problems. Cheap basic conversions work best on pre 1999 cars apparently. Unfortunately LPG has fallen out of favour with the government (why?) so grants are no longer available as I understand it, the website certainly doesn't exist anymore. With the MINI I'm not sure exactly what would happen with the LPG tank as this normally goes in the spare wheel well, and reduces boot space by about 3 inches in height. Tanks can go all over though, in the sills is another popular place. The other thing to note is that I have found dealers very wary of taking LPG cars in as PX, they don't know how to value them, and they believe that it is a niche sales market . The plus points are 100% discount on the London congestion charge (if applicable), and reduced road tax but this is Dependant on car manufacture dates (post 2000 i think), oh and best yet in cost terms my Rover was doing the equivalent of 110 mpg .

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[MartinSullivan]

One of the guys on :: NEWMINISCOTLAND :: had the conversion done to his cooper. If I can find his thread Ill try and copy it over to here.

[MartinSullivan]

This is Pauls thread on NMS

First bit when he was first thinking about the conversion

"The info so far, you usually get about 10-20% less mpg so a Cooper like mine should get 27 - 30mpg on LPG which is roughly 2.3 - 2.4 times cheaper. Costs works out to be similar to getting 62 - 72 mpg on diesel.

The conversion costs £1650 plus £90 for a 12 month warranty which covers anything that BMW will try to wrangle out of as a result of the conversion. TLC should be OK, but seeing that you can't trust our local dealer to service the car correctly perhaps thats not a great plus. You have to tell your insurance but they shouldn't charge you anymore, mine doesn't!

A 55 litre tank which holds 45 litres which will take up the bottom 30cm of your boot, this isn't an issue for us as we never use the rear seats and have the Omega to fall back on.

Performance suffers a tiny amount the Omega 2.6 MV6 will do 0 - 60 in 9.2 on petrol it takes 9.5 on gas. The engine should have less wear as its a cleaner fuel and it actually runs smoother and quieter. The car starts on petrol first and switches itself over when the engine warms to 30C, the car automatically switches back if you run out of LPG. You don't notice the change over.

There's lots of garages selling the gas but if you got the space (we haven't) you can have a tank in your garden for £200 per year. The fuel only costs 34p/l when bought in bulk.

Theres a lot of old wives tales going about saying its less safe etc but most of its crap, the tanks are steel (petrol ones are plastic) and are deformable in an accident, they are self sealing and the system has numerous cut off valves. Most experts reckon an LPG car would be safer than a petrol car.

So far I'm v.happy with the Omega conversion and we've done 10k in 4 months."

and his final review

"Here's the final review!

Running Costs!
So far its returned between 25 - 30mpg on gas this compares with 27 - 36 on petrol. Depending on the price of gas which varies between 2.5 to 2.8 cheaper than unleaded, this gives and an equivalent to 62.5pmg - 84mpg. The conversion cost £1500 plus an extra £90 for a warranty to cover all the parts of the car which could potentially go wrong and not be covered by MINI.

Performance
The car went in today for it's 1000 mile check up and the stumble has been resolved. To be honest I've not noticed any drop in performance and I did a 0-60 run today using MS's G-Tech kit (thanks martin!).

The 0-60 results on a dampish road: -
Petrol 9.12 sec
LPG 9.65 sec

Filling up
It's not as easy or as quick as filling up with petrol but because the filler point is in the back of the car I can fill from either side and beat the que.

Changes to the car
Well half the boot has gone, but its only half of bugger all, I can live with it though as we don't really use the rear seats anyway.

Verdict
Would I recommend it to anyone else, yes but with a few caveats only if you can find a good fitter nearby like I did LPG Autogas Conversion and repair specialist Lancashire , only if you do a reasonble mileage +15k and if you intend to keep the car .

Photos

The boot showing the tank boxed in and my subwoofer! Note the black
box in the recess on the bumper that's the filling point.
http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/500/DSCF0137.JPG

Close up of the tank and pipes
http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/500/DSCF0138.JPG

The modified one ball exhaust
http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/500/DSCF0145.JPG

The switch on the dash
http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/500/DSCF0149.JPG

The air filter and LPG vapouriser beneath
http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/500/DSCF0134.JPG

The gas injectors and connections to the inlet manifold
http://www.mini2.com/galleries/data/...m/DSCF0132.JPG


"

Hope that helps.

[humph]

Can't argue with anything in the review above really. Was always lead to believe that the drop in performance was purely to do with added weight and would therefore effect the car on petrol & LPG. Only ever noticed any difference between the fuels on mine if I had Optimax or similar in the petrol tank. Can't emphasize enough the importance of finding a good fitter. Chester LPG who where the official Rover outlet at the time did mine, finding out who the local main dealers use is a good idea. Most manufacturers have the conversions done aftermarket by an approved fitter and not on the production line.

[hyperbluejames]

nice one guys! you've pretty much satisfied my curiosity. always wondered why the government haven't been really pushing this as a type of fuel...never mind!

[AMT]

I had LPG fitted to my last Jeep Cherokee 4.0L (a single-point system which they say the Jeep's engine is perfectly suited to) by an approved LPG installer. The garage was also an approved service center for the local Chrysler / Jeep dealership.

Now, I'm sorry, but I personally found it a complete waste of time and would recommend it to nobody. For a start, LPG stations are few and far between. When you find one, there'll only be one pump, so if someone is there and the rest of the station is free then you have to sit and wait (looking like a tit). Also, I found it very common for the pumps to be out of order at the various garages I visitied in Scotland and North East England. I also experienced a few backfire and starting problems with the Jeep (apparenty a problem a lot of people experience), meaning I would have to sit there revving it for 20seconds EVERY time I started the engine to avoid it cutting out / backfiring. The garage say that's a characteristic and can't be helped.

Finally, resale value will be severly hampered. No one wants to buy a 2nd hand LPG converted car (especially if you lose the whole boot on the mini).

P.S: Scooper ended up blowing his engine shortly after his LPG conversion. I remember the installer posting on here asking for help!

[Minnie Mouse]

I have to say that the trouble my friend is having with her Mitsubishi Outlander at the moment is very offputting!
She had it converted to run on both petrol and LPG at the time of purchase and although it does save her money using the LPG she has found that LPG stations are few and far between. Her Outlander has not been right since she got it due to the LPG side of things and has been to and fro getting things sorted out (she has had the car 3 years from new). The car is now in Wales (and has been for the last month) at a specialist trying to find out what the problem is.
So when they go wrong, boy do they go wrong!!

[awj]

I had my Mini One Convertble converted to LPG 3 months ago. I didnt want to lose any boot space , so I have a "spare wheel" type tank UNDER the boot floor on the passenger side where the space saver wheel would go. This was a tight fit even with the smallest 38 litre tank available, but I still get 230 miles between refills. The bottom of the tank is visible below the line of the back bumper, but to date has not been an issue with kerbs etc. The main benefit is the equivalent of 75mpg on my 100 mile daily commute, although you need to investigate the location of your nearest LPG stations. I have detected no loss of performance or reliability issues over the last 10k miles, and I would not hesitate to recommend the conversion to anyone - the pay back is after aprox 30k miles vs diesel payback usually around 80k.

[Why Me]

awj where did you get your conversion done as I am in teh sam eneck of the woods and am thinking of getting it done, and have you had any problems with the dealer at service time, and which dealer do you use ?

Cheers

[awj]

I had my conversion done by Stan Cherkowski at LPG Conversions Ltd, Heanor Gate Industrial Estate, Heanor Gate Rd, Heanor, Derbyshire DE75 7RJ
Tel: 01773 711622 back in June 2006. He did say that it was all a tight squeeze (usually work on Range Rovers, Jaguars etc), but I guess he now knows where everything will fit having practiced on mine! He did an excellent job, highly recommended.

My local dealer is Stratstone Derby, who arent highly recommended, as I havent been very impressed with them to date - they tried initially to fob me off regarding the noisy clutch bearings, but did change the clutch under warranty the second time I took it in after I insisted it wasnt right....
I havent had a service since the conversion, but I am due one in 500 miles, so should be able to update you on that score by next weekend.
If you need any more info, or pictures of the installation, just let me know.

[awj]

I had my conversion done by Stan Cherkowski at LPG Conversions Ltd, Heanor Gate Industrial Estate, Heanor Gate Rd, Heanor, Derbyshire DE75 7RJ
Tel: 01773 711622 back in June 2006. He did say that it was all a tight squeeze (usually work on Range Rovers, Jaguars etc), but I guess he now knows where everything will fit having practiced on mine! He did an excellent job, highly recommended.

My local dealer is Stratstone Derby, who arent highly recommended, as I havent been very impressed with them to date - they tried initially to fob me off regarding the noisy clutch bearings, but did change the clutch under warranty the second time I took it in after I insisted it wasnt right....
I havent had a service since the conversion, but I am due one in 500 miles, so should be able to update you on that score by next weekend.
If you need any more info, or pictures of the installation, just let me know.