[R1]

I found this article on the R1 forum about the real way to run in an engine and why.

Makes interesting reading!

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

[batemano]

I may try this technique when I get my new Cooper in October. It seems like they know what they are talking about, to me it does anyway. Can anyone think of a reason not to use this technique?

[Dom mini cooper]

That article more of less confirms what I thought Cool

Dom - happy he's not as much of a muppet as he thought

[RickB]

Not much aluminum in the MINI engine (not enough, certainly . . .), so the "aluminizing" aspect doesn't really apply, but the ring sealing part makes sense.

[sjbartnik]

I believe that the people who designed and built the MINI know more about how to properly break it in than a random guy on the internet

But that's just me.

[R1]

I have always run in my bike engines the way they state on that site.

Interestingly me and my mate both bought R1's a week apart. He ran his in to the book and used fully synthetic oil from new and I run mine in the way I always have and used semi-synthetic oil.

I have now covered 6200 miles on mine and my mate has covered 5600 miles on his. We both had our bikes on a dyno the other week (the same one used in both runs) to check the horsepower and his R1 put out 136 BHP at the back wheel and mine put out 142 BHP!! Both are the same spec bikes!!

Says something that!!

[basefreq]

This sounds like good info, but is it specific to bikes only? I'm not very mechanically inclined, but aren't there a good deal of differences between a bike's engine and a car's engine? Any info/opinions would be appreciated.

[R1]

At the end of the day it's up to you whether you take any notice of that article, but it does say at the begining it aplies to any style of engine.

Quote:

Although the example here is a Suzuki, these principles apply to all 4 stroke engines; Street or Race Motorcycles, Cars, Airplanes & yes ... even Lawn Mowers !!
( regardless of brand, cooling type, or number of cylinders. )

[noahe]

This sounds like the process right after re-building an engine... This is the inital seating of the rings after a cylinder hone has been used. The cross-hatch pattern helps to seat the piston rings, and allows the cylinder to wear as well.

I fully expect that a new engine is constructed this way too. However, a MOTORCYCLE is shipped in a box. They arrive with 0 miles on the dial. A car is a much different story. They are driven before you even get them. The engines are often run under load before they are installed in the vehicle. Sometimes they are even track tested. Certainly they are driven out of the factory, onto a rail car, off the rail car, into a boat, off of a boat, maybe on a train again, then onto and off of a truck transporter.

The immediate out-of-the box 20 mile 'window' may be gone before you get the car.

So, while the theory may be sound, the application may not be possible, or necessary.

We need to ask MiNiGuY what happens to a Tritech Pentagon from when it is assembled in Brazil, to when it gets installed in your MINI, to when it's off-loaded at your dealer.

I would suspect that it's bench-tested under load in Brazil, verified for a base compression level, and shipped to MINI in England. Then I'll bet it's put in a car and fired up, and test-driven. Then aside from the transporting issues, fired up again at your dealer for their 'test' (yes, they rag 'em) and delivered to you.

By the time you receive your car at the little presentation ceremony, there is no cross-hatching in the cylinder for you to use up. Therefore you take it easy, and let all the lubricants, coolants distribute, and gently run the engine allowing the important things like crankshaft bearings take a little time to seat fully.

Anyways, this is part knowledge, part opinion, and partly a guess. We really need to know the details about the birth of a Tritech Pentagon, to it's installation in a MINI, to KNOW for sure if we should ignore what's in the owner's manual.

Personally, I followed the manual. I would hope that it was the right thing to do.

[R1]

Good point there!

[MiNiGuY]

I'm afraid that I disagree in principle to the 'break in secrets' page which can be linked from this thread.

In fact weighing up the 'article' as a whole, I find it basically a load of rubbish and ask people not to be taken in by it.

The page states:-

"The piston ring seal is really what the break in process is all about. Contrary to popular belief, piston rings don't seal the combustion pressure by spring tension. Ring tension is necessary only to "scrape" the oil to prevent it from entering the combustion chamber."

ABSOLUTE RUBBISH.

The page goes on :-

"If you think about it, the ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall....
How can that seal 3,000 + lbs. of combustion pressure on the way down ?? Of course it can't."

ANSWER - the rings force is horizontal, the force from fuel burn is vertical.

I ask you this - if all piston rings did was scrape away oil then what would be the point of oil in the first place and how come it gets used? - magic?,does it evaporate? I think not.

It seems apparent to me that the author of that passage does not have a full grasp of the mechanical and physical workings of an engine and also hasn't understood the 'fundimental' reasons that an engine should be carefully run in, something you would expect of them in order to at least hear their argument.
Also to state that the application is valid for 4 stroke engines is mindboggling in the least. Be it a 2 or 4 stroke engine the piston to cylinder wall sealing is the same and careful running in is as important to both types.

This thread is rather unrelated to MINI but, having already seen the reply by batemano I am posting in the hope that the rubbish i've just read will not encourage damaging engine treatment by new owners.

To give a full explanation of why an engine should be run in carefully would take a lot of space but i'd be prepared to write such an article, including the reasons it invalidates what i've read, if requested.

Run your MINI with consideration when you buy it and it will pay you well in the long run!!

[robinboyes]

I agree that running in a car properly is paramount to its longevity and performance.

Very briefly (as i have spoken about this in another thread) I took my dealers "loan car" while they did some recall work. It seemed much quicker than mine mid range. However mine seems to want to rev its whatsits off and has a much more power higher up the rev range.

The service manager said that their loan car has probably been ragged from new. I ran my mini in with alot of care and it has just covered over 7000 miles. The original oil is still just over half on the dip stick - it doesn't seem to use any oil.

I wonder if the same can be said for the loan car!!

[sjbartnik]

Quote:

the other week (the same one used in both runs) to check the horsepower and his R1 put out 136 BHP at the back wheel and mine put out 142 BHP!! Both are the same spec bikes!!

Says something that!! [/b]

Not necessarily. You only have 2 bikes to compare and that's not enough to define a trend, let alone a statistically significant one.

First, due to manufacturing tolerances, no two engines will put out the same exact hp figures even if they are identical spec. If you think that every Cooper engine for example puts out exactly 115 hp at exactly whatever rpm, you would be mistaken

They usually will rate it on the low side so not too many engines will put out less than 115 hp and some may put out more. It all depends on the tolerances. In more recent years tolerances have gotten better but this still exists to some degree.

Then there are other variables: weight of engine oil, efficiency of the drivetrain, weight of gear oil (if you are testing on a dyno), grade and quality of gasoline, ignition timing, altitude, engine temperature, ambient temperature, humidity, etc. all will affect the power produced by an engine. Unless you have carefully designed a study to account for all these variables, your comparison is meaningless.

[m1les]

While you are on-topic MiNiGuY, what is your opinion of changing the oil at the 10K mileage?

I know engines and materials have changed a lot over the years but I still cant get used to this for the first oil change.

[MiNiGuY]

Quote:

Originally posted by m1les
While you are on-topic MiNiGuY, what is your opinion of changing the oil at the 10K mileage?

I know engines and materials have changed a lot over the years but I still cant get used to this for the first oil change.

10,000 miles is a breeze for a modern engine such as MINI so it's no big deal to leave it (assuming you ran it in properly!!).

Personally i'd change the oil and filter at the end of run in.
For MINI that's about 1300 miles.
That's being particularly cautious but if it were my car I know that's what i'd do.
Any unwanted nastyness can be flushed, and a refill with top quality oil of at least the standard it was filled with makes the early change worth it.
An additive such as 'Slick 50' is well worth the money and well worth putting in early also.

[sjbartnik]

Quote:

An additive such as 'Slick 50' is well worth the money and well worth putting in early also.

Are you serious?

Slick 50 is about the biggest scam going. It has solid particles of Teflon suspended in it for God's sake. No way would I put that or any other snake oil in my engine. Solid particulate matter does NOT go in an engine.

duPont actually sued the makers of Slick 50 when it came out because they felt that Teflon has no place in an automotive engine. duPont lost the suit because it was ruled that they couldn't tell Teflon buyers what to do with the stuff.

The U.S. FTC busted Slick 50 for false and deceptive advertising as well.

I don't know if MINI would void your warranty for using something like that, but they should!

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by MiNiGuY
...An additive such as 'Slick 50' is well worth the money and well worth putting in early also.

YIKES!

Perhaps the 'magic' of Slick 50 is now charming the UK (its marketing campaign is the only good thing going for it), but this product has been seriously studied and found wanting in almost every respect in the US. Do an Internet search, and while opinions may vary widely, it's clear that that stuff is simply not needed in any engine - especially the MINI's powerplant which is fortunate to live on a steady diet of synthetic oil from birth.

I wouldn't put Slick 50 in my lawnmower (and I'd like an excuse to buy a new one!)

[R1]

Quote:

Originally posted by sjbartnik
Unless you have carefully designed a study to account for all these variables, your comparison is meaningless.

I was just highlighting another variable!!

[R1]

Quote:

Originally posted by MiNiGuY
An additive such as 'Slick 50' is well worth the money and well worth putting in early also.

Sorry MiNiGuY but you have just ruined your advice!!

[dsc68]

Quote:

Originally posted by sjbartnik


The U.S. FTC busted Slick 50 for false and deceptive advertising as well.

The FTC press release concerning Slick 50

There are plenty of good articles on the net explaining why Slick 50 and other additives are cr@p.