[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

I stopped posting on MINI2 over a month ago, but I have to come back to reply to this.

I am deeply concerned that posts should be under this threat. It is one thing to disallow posts because they break rules and quite another if it is because the viewpoint may be unacceptable.

Personally I feel that the view point of those that don't like the re-style of the new MINI is every bit as valid as those who like it; good luck to them all.

Personally, I feel very shortchanged by a redesign that I was looking forward to. There have been a lot of new designs recently that have improved on the original. Taking another small car, the Mercedes A class, it looks so similar to the original, but has improved its looks drastically.

Now, with the new MINI, they had to change it. BMW needed to keep the design fresh, to meet crash regs and make space for a larger new engine ( though, funnily enough, the K Series was originally dismissed for "being space inefficient and needing to raise the bonnet line of the accepted design").

To do the job properly, they needed to make major changes to the car to change lots of proportions, but they have kept the basic structure the same and have adapted the ends of the car.

To give you an example, look at the MINI concept car (Traveller) from all of the recent shows. They made major changes, including moving the leading edge of the windscreen further forward to very successfully disguise the bulk of the new front. They completely redesigned the doors to make them much larger with a wacky hinge to get rid of an extra shutline and make exit and entry really easy. They got rid of the B pillar completely. This is radical stuff, but very creative.

What we got was too much of the basic structure carried over and the faultless proportions of the original have been lost. The front is now too large for the rest of the car, the boot bulges out like an old generation Clio (always the old Clio's worst aspect) and the the windows (which were always as shallow as they could possibly get away with) are now too shallow and they look odd.

Much of the detail styling has become clumsy, especially the bulky lights with vulgar chrome trims at the back and the side vents. The mirrors look bloated and the "face" of the car has lost its unique charm and complete lack of aggression that meant that so many non enthusiasts loved it.

The R50 was always a very expensive way to buy a 3 door supermini but it didn't matter and every extra penny could be justified. It had lovely curvey glass in the rear windows which totally compensated for the fact that they didn't open. It had a unique clamshell bonnet that was nearly as radical as the Triumph Herald and the whole clamshell had very few shutlines. It had frameless windows (fortunately continued). It had headlamps mounted in the bonnet.

Much of this has been lost, yet the price has actually increased!

I really, really, wanted to like the R56. I feel deeply disappointed by what I've seen so far and that makes me very sad.

much more like it, nice post Tigger

There is nothing wrong with not liking the R56, but it should be more than a flaming/slating post as I said earlier, it should be giving a reason for not liking something, explaining what points are not liked, or what is prefered about the out going model.

Too many threads get dragged down by some users that come here purely to cause trouble and pick fault or a fight over nothing, it happened with the GP last, and now they have moved onto the R56, but those users will not be tolerated on this site. They should take a note out of Tiggers post on how to communicate like a grown up.

Oh and glad you came back

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by JG.26 (original)

I think Rakey has a problem with anyone who wishes to express views whether positive and negative. Like the one I started the other day on the Suzuki Swift which was not a Suzuki V MINI thread but he felt it was not appropriate. There are MINI owners who happen to own a drive other makes of car and who just might like to bring their experiences onto MINI2. Its a shame the moderators have to spoil things.

No, I only have a problem with those that don't express themselves fully or with something more than just cheap attacks at something that other users are probably very happy about having paid out for such as an R56 or a GP etc...

The swift thread was started out as a good thread, but no fault of yours, got highjacked by a couple of users that did this before in the main Swift thread that already exists on here to try and drag it off as another Swift is a MINI rip off thread, so it was closed to prevent further deteriation of the thread.

Quote:

I have been using this site for 3 years now and there are some great people on here and was as such great site to begin with, have received a lot of help. But unfortunately over time I have noticed things have changed for the want of a better word a *****iness and plain rudeness of some members towards others, this is something I simply haven't experienced on other car forums including Suzuki, Audi and Toyota. in the past. I'am not really sure what that says about MINI owners Like I said before the thread I started on the Suzuki Swift was meant to be light hearted banter and it soon like before where the Suzuki has been mentioned degenerated into a Sl*****g session of both the car and even worse its owners. I found that really sad and unfortunate. I also found it hard to believe that a MINI2er took the time to register onto the Suzuki4U site to have a go regarding their use of bonnet stripes and roof graphics.......OH DEAR!!......It really does for me put me off bothering to visit this site anymore or contribute to the threads.

I agree, that was out of order, and that user was told not to go trolling on the Swift site, as we certainly don't stand for that behaviour on our site and would not like them to sign up and come here to cause trouble.

Quote:

Anyway back to point regarding the new model, personally I don't like it, but based purely on the looks as I'm sure it will drive better and the quality and refinement will be an improvement. I'am sure when there are plenty of the new models on the roads and we have driven them then we will wonder what all the fuss was about. There is nothing wrong in likeing or disliking it.....afterall it's personal choice............moderators......please take note!!!

Never said there wasn't anything wrong with not liking, just that its wrong for some of the posts that were made in here that were purely saying that they hate it with no back up on why.

[JG.26]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rakey (original)

No, I only have a problem with those that don't express themselves fully or with something more than just cheap attacks at something that other users are probably very happy about having paid out for such as an R56 or a GP etc...

The swift thread was started out as a good thread, but no fault of yours, got highjacked by a couple of users that did this before in the main Swift thread that already exists on here to try and drag it off as another Swift is a MINI rip off thread, so it was closed to prevent further deteriation of the thread.

I agree, that was out of order, and that user was told not to go trolling on the Swift site, as we certainly don't stand for that behaviour on our site and would not like them to sign up and come here to cause trouble.


Never said there wasn't anything wrong with not liking, just that its wrong for some of the posts that were made in here that were purely saying that they hate it with no back up on why.

Fair points I can understand your view that it would be nice to have reasons why someone dislikes the new model rather than giving negatives without a view. I think you will always get the I hate it full stop scenario.

I would agree entirely with what Tigger said and was put very well. The reason I bought my MINI was it's uniqueness ie what other car had a clamshell bonnet?, what other car had a supercharger in a hatchback in that price range? what other car had the power steering whine that made pedestrians stare at you the list could go on. The new model has thankfully kept the overall styling que ie it still looks unmistakenly MINI and compared to any other hatch, still looks good BUT in my view in the watering down if thats the correct word of the design for whatever reason, pedestrian safety, cost etc it's losing that uniqueness. I guess when you look at most classic cars the earlier versions always seem to keep their desiribility as the later models became watered down in their looks the car lost that desiribility factor. I hope the MINI doesn't go the same way over the coming years.

I guess there is only one thing to do and keep my current S and trade the Swift in for the new model

[typpet5]

Interesting thread. Why does one have to better than the other? The R53 and R56 are different not better or worse. If you have an R53 and enjoy it then enjoy it. If you think the R56 works for you buy it. Both will be great rides because they are Mini's.

After many episodes of envy each time I saw a Mini cruising by me, I made up my mind to get one. My dilemna was which to order, an 06 now or wait for the 07? Both appealed to me, the 06 via test drives, the 07 via many hours of scouring the internet for pics, movies, available brochure. So I ordered the 06 two weeks ago. Why? After each test drive, I realized the R53 made me laugh because it is so fun to drive. With this as my visceral reaction then why wait? So, I plincked down the deposit, ordered my MCS, and am looking forward to late November when it should arrive. It will be stabled right next to my 1960 MGA roadster.

[KPKalle]

Quote: Originally Posted by JG.26 (original)

Fair points I can understand your view that it would be nice to have reasons why someone dislikes the new model rather than giving negatives without a view. I think you will always get the I hate it full stop scenario.

I would agree entirely with what Tigger said and was put very well. The reason I bought my MINI was it's uniqueness ie what other car had a clamshell bonnet?, what other car had a supercharger in a hatchback in that price range? what other car had the power steering whine that made pedestrians stare at you the list could go on. The new model has thankfully kept the overall styling que ie it still looks unmistakenly MINI and compared to any other hatch, still looks good BUT in my view in the watering down if thats the correct word of the design for whatever reason, pedestrian safety, cost etc it's losing that uniqueness. I guess when you look at most classic cars the earlier versions always seem to keep their desiribility as the later models became watered down in their looks the car lost that desiribility factor. I hope the MINI doesn't go the same way over the coming years.

I guess there is only one thing to do and keep my current S and trade the Swift in for the new model

Fair comment, but each to his own. Myself, I don't think the design is watered down - just an evolution. I mean compare variations/developments on Astons, Ferraris, etc. They're all still desirable no matter what model. I see the MINI the same way.

[jon vital]

I really don't think you can judge a car's looks until you have not only seen it in the metal, but lived with it for a while ( in terms of seeing them regularly on the road). I remember when the current model was facelifted and half the people on here were slating it and saying they'd never buy one. I bet a lot of them eventually did.

[matt.morrow]

WITHOUT PREJUDICE (for those of you who seem to be easily offended)

R50 was/is rattly, has a poor gear box, both interior and exterior is starting to look dated to name a few things.

I have owned both a 2001 MINI ONE and a 2005 MINI COOPER which I am about to trade in for a launch R56 - I have loved both the MINIs so far and I am really excited about the new one.

Time moves on - I agree with those how feel this thread is pointless as everyone is bound to have their own opinion! Make love, not way ;-)!

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by JG.26 (original)

Fair points I can understand your view that it would be nice to have reasons why someone dislikes the new model rather than giving negatives without a view. I think you will always get the I hate it full stop scenario.

I would agree entirely with what Tigger said and was put very well. The reason I bought my MINI was it's uniqueness ie what other car had a clamshell bonnet?, what other car had a supercharger in a hatchback in that price range? what other car had the power steering whine that made pedestrians stare at you the list could go on. The new model has thankfully kept the overall styling que ie it still looks unmistakenly MINI and compared to any other hatch, still looks good BUT in my view in the watering down if thats the correct word of the design for whatever reason, pedestrian safety, cost etc it's losing that uniqueness. I guess when you look at most classic cars the earlier versions always seem to keep their desiribility as the later models became watered down in their looks the car lost that desiribility factor. I hope the MINI doesn't go the same way over the coming years.

I guess there is only one thing to do and keep my current S and trade the Swift in for the new model

At the moment my personal views are very mixed about the R56, its grown on me more and more, and I dare say I shall order one at some point to replace mine, but I'm not saying I prefer it or that I dislike it.

I agree there is something about the current car that I doubt can be captured in the R56, it was original in the way it looks, drives, and the whole buzz of owning it. There is the whole kudos of it been Frank Stephensons design, the supercharger whine of the MCS. Yes its had issues, but what car doesn't, especially those with Rover design in it But those flaws are things we didn't let detract from the ownership experience, if anything some of the rattles and bugs are what we class as its character.

But we have to look at the R56 as the next evolution, not sure I'd use watered down, but I see where you are coming from on a like for like comparison between the two. If we look at the design on its own though of the R56 I have to admit it has some things I feel are better and a step forwards, or even a step back to the original mini in styling.

My real final feelings about the car I guess I can't say what they will be until I see one in the metal, drive one, or live with it. We are going to finalise the spec on Sunday of my GF's R56 that replaces her MCC in December, its proving hard to decide with the amount of options and choices to make, but still its exciting

But no matter what I decide about the R56, it certainly isn't going to be a hate it, and it certainly isn't going to make me ever look back on the R53 as a poor relation, as I have had too many happy experiences with the ones I have owned

[LMB]

Quote: Originally Posted by Miss Marmite (original)

I've noticed this kind of comment a lot from 06 owners, I can't help but think that for some of you it is because you bought an old model just before a new one is coming out.

I bought a 06 because I wanted one of the last of the current generation of Mini's. As to whether I think the R56 is ugly, well I wouldn't got that far. I wasn't overly keen on the car when I first saw the pictures but it is growing on me. I will reserve judgement until I see it in the flesh.

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Rakey and Soggy

Good points and I completely agree.

In return, I shall try not to get annoyed every time someone says that "I can't judge the design until I've seen it in the metal". I've seen hundreds of photos of the car and when I did see it in the metal, a couple of months ago, it looked just the same as the photos (though the "laser blue" paint job did look fabulous).

Roll on discussion on the subject, but let's keep it welcoming for the owners of both old and new.

Tigger.

[Iamamini]

I am far from convinced that I like it, I think it has lost some of its looks, it looks more modern but I am not sure that is right with a MINI. Once thing for sure, the middle part of the dashboard looks like a toy, that silver plastic is horrible looking at the pictures, hope it looks better when I am going to try the car.

[Shaun]

Just to come back to all the heated debate that has appeared in this thread i posted this comment last night.

"Just to Context things I really wasnt taken by the MINI in general when it came out although I got an 02 plate One I was still not sure if I thought it was a good looking car and not a patch on my Classic in the charm department.
But here 3 MINIs down the line they are starting to grow on me"

I just wonder were my post falls in the most of you sound like catergory?

Its true though I really didnt like the MINI at first I saw it on Launch and thought maybe. I was probably one of the few classic owners though (pre internet when we all met up) who defended the new car.
Then with my own classic heading for 6 years old and a new gearbox and rusting well I went for it bought a One wih dodgy suspension airbags etc and have never looked back.
I dont like the look of the new S purely because of that black plastic grill seeing it in the flesh isnt going to change that.
I am a sucker for brightwork always have been its a Mini Signature for me but I am not going to be attacked for personal preference. The lines are certainly different but not in the way the Focus Mk2 seemed to really lose the plot its not a bad looking car the Focus but you cant say
Mk1 is point A and mk2 is Point B more like J with some letters gone astray in between.
At least the second gen Mini hasnt morfed into a four door golf sized hatch to cash in on more markets.

I supose this whole thread title is not very clever really is it but no its not ugly there are many ugly cars out there and the R56 isnt one of them.

2008 Non S flavoured Clubman or traveller thats next for me.

[herbie hind]

i think they're going further and further from the classic ;which is why i bought one of the 04s. i realize they made some changes to the headlights and such in an attampt to save money but it's getting to look like a renault.

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by herbie hind (original)

i think they're going further and further from the classic ;which is why i bought one of the 04s. i realize they made some changes to the headlights and such in an attampt to save money but it's getting to look like a renault.

But there are some points which are more true to the mini on the R56, such as the one piece grill that stays down when the bonnet lifts.

I remember when I brought my first new MINI, the grill was an area that I felt had not been considered properly the way that part was attached to the bumper and part to the bonnet. Infact the shape of the nose on the Cooper with it been so angled made me decide I would not be buying one of those, as it looked totally different to the mini shape in profile.

[ABG]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoggyCornFlakes (original)

We don't want that alienation so to all of you posting, take a lesson from John's post above - constructive and fair, that is great. but please take away the "it's ugly" jibes, we don't want that type of posting here.

The title of the thread is "R56 is ugly?" so it seems quite normal for people to answer than question head on and to use the (suddenly socialy unacceptable ) "ugly" word in their response.

Calling a person ugly is rude. Calling a car ugly is not.
Unless of course the car is like Herbie (AKA The Love Bug) and has become self-aware.

Just for info - does the MINI2 request to not use "ugly" to describe a car only apply to MINI's or all cars?

[SoggyCornFlakes]

Quote: Originally Posted by ABG (original)

The title of the thread is "R56 is ugly?" so it seems quite normal for people to answer than question head on and to use the (suddenly socialy unacceptable ) "ugly" word in their response.

Calling a person ugly is rude. Calling a car ugly is not.
Unless of course the car is like Herbie (AKA The Love Bug) and has become self-aware.

Just for info - does the MINI2 request to not use "ugly" to describe a car only apply to MINI's or all cars?

No one has said don't use the word ugly, all we've asked is to consider other's opinions and feelings and if you think it's ugly justify the statement. For someone who can often seem sensitive to negative comments regarding their car I'd have thought you'd appreciate this approach

The thread has become a good debate about good and bad points regarding the new model, shall we try and maintain that please

[Bing]

I am going to hold off judgement until the 07 MINI is officially out on the street. I think seeing one
in person and driving the car will be the clincher.

[MINIMAT]

Quote: Originally Posted by ollymale (original)

Apparently its because although it looks very cool with the headlights going up on the bonnet its very expensive to produce. Also when you slam your bonnet down it was mis-aligning headlights all the time, meaning dealers were re-aligning headlights a lot.

Also can cost more in a front end smash. Replacing the bonnet should be cheaper.

[Rakey]

Quote: Originally Posted by ABG (original)

The title of the thread is "R56 is ugly?" so it seems quite normal for people to answer than question head on and to use the (suddenly socialy unacceptable ) "ugly" word in their response.

Calling a person ugly is rude. Calling a car ugly is not.
Unless of course the car is like Herbie (AKA The Love Bug) and has become self-aware.

Just for info - does the MINI2 request to not use "ugly" to describe a car only apply to MINI's or all cars?

if ugly as a descriptive word was outlawed then this thread would have been gone, not moderated

like Bob has said, this thread is now actually a rather good discusion about the negatives and plus points of the R56 and comparing it with the out going car