[SiBradbury]

Quote: Originally Posted by lookalikeJCW (original)

ive seen many cars going round with these plates on, theres a loophole somewhere in the law.
Im interested in these plates aswell and i know there not completly illegal il try and get some info unless someone else has any
thanks mark

No, really, there isn't a loophole and they are completely illegal.

If you really want the legal blurb......


VEHICLES REGISTERED ON OR AFTER 1ST JANUARY 1973 AND BEFORE 1ST SEPTEMBER 2001 (OPTIONAL SPECIFICATION)
1. The plate must be made of reflex-reflecting material which, as regards its construction, colour and other qualities, complies with the requirements of -

(a) the British Standard Specification for reflex-reflecting number plates, published on 11 September 1972 under the number BS AU 145a[14], or

(b) any other relevant standard or specification recognised for use in an EEA State and which, when in use, offers a performance equivalent to that offered by a plate complying with the British Standard specification,

and which, in either case, is marked with the number (or such other information as is necessary to permit identification) of that standard or specification.

2. Where the registration mark is displayed on the front of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a white background.

3. Where the registration mark is displayed on the back of the vehicle, it must have black characters on a yellow background.



You can find the entire document here: Statutory Instrument 2001 No. 561


(They also look totally awful on modern cars but if anyone could post a pic that proves otherwise i'll stand corrected!)

[Paul]

18. For the purposes of these Regulations a vehicle which was first registered on or after 1st January 1973 shall be treated as if it was first registered before that date if -

(a) it is an exempt vehicle for the purposes of paragraph 1A(1) of Schedule 2 to the Act[12], or

(b) not being such a vehicle, it was constructed before 1st January 1973.

^^^^ Just to be clear on the constructed, not registered point I was making.

[SiBradbury]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

18. For the purposes of these Regulations a vehicle which was first registered on or after 1st January 1973 shall be treated as if it was first registered before that date if -

(a) it is an exempt vehicle for the purposes of paragraph 1A(1) of Schedule 2 to the Act[12], or

(b) not being such a vehicle, it was constructed before 1st January 1973.

^^^^ Just to be clear on the constructed, not registered point I was making.

Just in case we all thought you were some kind of law breaking outlaw?

[Paul]

Yep.

[SiBradbury]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

Yep.

You still owned a Beetle......

[mab01uk]

If you really must have a Mini with legal black and silver plates you will have to buy a pre '73 Mini Classic, as a bonus (like my '71Cooper S) it will also be car tax exempt as all pre 1973 cars are also classed as historic vehicles. This was a rolling 25 year tax exemption brought in by the Torys for little used classic cars but was frozen at 1973 by Labour a few years ago
Some post '73 Mini classic owners with personal plates get away with it for a while because 1959-2000 models all look pretty similar to the untrained eye (much like VW Beetles) but it is not legal if the police were to check.
In recent years the traffic police have been severely cut back & replaced by speed cameras which is why you see so many wrongly spaced plates & people blatently talking on their hand held mobile phones everyday while driving.

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by SiBradbury (original)

You still owned a Beetle......

Guilty as charged, m'lud.

[SiBradbury]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

Guilty as charged, m'lud.

I have a confession....

My first car was a 1972 Cal-Look Beetle, de-chromed, smooth dash, Empi 8 spokes etc etc

[Paul]

Mine was actually a wizard roadster!

[SiBradbury]

Let's just gloss over it eh?

(and yes, i have just changed my avatar to the hero that is Ron Burgundy)

[northandy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

See here if you're not, for some reason, convinced:

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/lea...mberplates.pdf

The caveat is BUILT before 1st Jan 1973, which is why sometimes L (73) and even M (74) cars can legally have black/white plates on them. I had an L reg once, registered Jan 1973, which was allowed black/white as the assumption was that a VW Beetle wouldn't have been built, and then registered in the first few days of 1973.

My Classic Pickup was registered in early 73 and has silver on black plates..... its passed MOT's with those on.

[SiBradbury]

Quote: Originally Posted by northandy (original)

My Classic Pickup was registered in early 73 and has silver on black plates..... its passed MOT's with those on.

There is some leeway regarding this law because the vehicle only has to have been manufactured before 1973. Most vehicles aren't registered immediately after being manufactured, so many vehicles that were made towards the end of '72 weren't registered until the follwing year. Most MOT stations won't go to the trouble of finding out the exact date of manufacture as an excuse to fail a 1973 registered vehicle because of its number plates.

It's unlikely however that you'd be able to convinvce an MOT tester that a BMW Mini was made in 1973 but not registered until 2002

[northandy]

Quote: Originally Posted by SiBradbury (original)

There is some leeway regarding this law because the vehicle only has to have been manufactured before 1973. Most vehicles aren't registered immediately after being manufactured, so many vehicles that were made towards the end of '72 weren't registered until the follwing year. Most MOT stations won't go to the trouble of finding out the exact date of manufacture as an excuse to fail a 1973 registered vehicle because of its number plates.

It's unlikely however that you'd be able to convinvce an MOT tester that a BMW Mini was made in 1973 but not registered until 2002

True, I did look into it myself as the rule on tax exemption works the same way, if you can prove it was built in 72 then it should be tax exempt, unfortunately mine was actually built in February, just missing the exempt status by 6 weeks

[No Comment Officer]

ive seen a brand new BLACK Rolls Royce Phantom with black number plates

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by South Shore Lad (original)

When was K reg (as a suffix ) then - circa '72?

I'm sure the K reg Cortina in Life on Mars (set in '73) has non reflective plates.

Probably got the historical accuracy right, but wouldn't it have been odd for a mainstream car to be sold 'back then' with the old style plates? All the new cars I recall from that period had white/black and yellow/black.

Reflective plates came in during the mid/late 60s didn't they? If so, there was a few years when you could either have reflective or black/white then if '73 is the legal cut off point.

And I'm of the opinion too that there's something not right about modern cars with old fashioned plates!

SSL

Good point.

A good friend of mine used to work at a Ford main dealers. When he started in about 1983 the other salesman had been working there since the 1960's. He said that any new vehicle going out from long before 1973 was fitted with the "new style" white and yellow number plates as the black and silver ones would have been way too embarrassing on a then new car!

So, you wind up in a strange situation where new cars in 1970-73 were always fitted with white/yellow plates when new and then, in "period" pieces like Life on Mars, they are fitted with the black and silver plates that were legal, but they would never have been fitted with in the first place!

Tigger.

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by No Comment Officer (original)

ive seen a brand new BLACK Rolls Royce Phantom with black number plates

Take the number, shop them. Just saw a BMW 07 reg with the same just now actually.

[SiBradbury]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul Mullett (original)

Take the number, shop them. Just saw a BMW 07 reg with the same just now actually.

It's for their own good because black and silver number plates on modern cars look really lame, like you've recycled a bit of an old morris minor and stuck it on your new mini or something.

[Paul]

Very true.

[mab01uk]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

Good point.

A good friend of mine used to work at a Ford main dealers. When he started in about 1983 the other salesman had been working there since the 1960's. He said that any new vehicle going out from long before 1973 was fitted with the "new style" white and yellow number plates as the black and silver ones would have been way too embarrassing on a then new car!

So, you wind up in a strange situation where new cars in 1970-73 were always fitted with white/yellow plates when new and then, in "period" pieces like Life on Mars, they are fitted with the black and silver plates that were legal, but they would never have been fitted with in the first place!

Tigger.

My first car in the early 70's was a 1965 Mini 850, the first thing I did was fit reflective plates to make it look newer as did many people at the time. We also used to replace the small MK1 back lights for later Mk2 style plus the front grille, etc. Of course today the opposite is true as Mk1 Minis with black/silver plates and small back lights look correct for the 1960's period, (including my present classic Mini!)
Reflective plates were of course brought in for safety reasons as research in other countries had proved their were less collisions with unlit parked vehicles and better visibilty of moving vehicles at night as well as for police, etc, reading the plates after dark.

[Saad]

Quote: Originally Posted by mab01uk (original)

If you really must have a Mini with legal black and silver plates you will have to buy a pre '73 Mini Classic, as a bonus (like my '71Cooper S) it will also be car tax exempt as all pre 1973 cars are also classed as historic vehicles. This was a rolling 25 year tax exemption brought in by the Torys for little used classic cars but was frozen at 1973 by Labour a few years ago
Some post '73 Mini classic owners with personal plates get away with it for a while because 1959-2000 models all look pretty similar to the untrained eye (much like VW Beetles) but it is not legal if the police were to check.
In recent years the traffic police have been severely cut back & replaced by speed cameras which is why you see so many wrongly spaced plates & people blatently talking on their hand held mobile phones everyday while driving.

If you have a non-age related private plate on a classic mini you could probably get away with black and silver plates on a post '73 car. I know a guy that bought a severely rotten classic, reshelled it with a Heritage Mk5 shell, but because the V5 says it was manufactured in '65 he can get away with black and silver plates even though practically everything is brand new on the car.