MINI2

toofast · Apr 13th, 2007, 04:49 PM

Why did mini switch for the 07 model year... which is better?

JAMIE1131 · Apr 13th, 2007, 04:57 PM

Supercharge, but I'm biased!

Tigger, Eeyore & Roo · Apr 13th, 2007, 05:16 PM

I believe that BMW were pretty much forced to adopt a supercharger the first time around due to problems with space (or lack of it).

A supercharger has no lag and makes lovely noises (!) Unfortunately, it also wastes a lot of power, just turning itself over (I have heard the figure of 30 bhp mentioned). Whereas a turbo uses the, largely, wasted energy in the flow of the exhaust gases.

Consequently a turbo charger is more economical, has better emissions and is, in theory, more tunable. Manufacturer's (in Europe, at least) are under immense pressure to reduce CO2 emissions. The CO2 output dropping from 207 to 164g/km can, I suspect, be largely put down to this change over. Having said that turbos are very tunable, the jury is still out on the scope for tuning the new motor as a whole.

That's a brief summary, before someone like Roland comes on and gives us a proper answer

Tigger.

PS: Besides, turbos are everywhere, superchargers are very rare on production cars!

Paul Webster · Apr 13th, 2007, 05:22 PM

The Fireballed guys usually end up with 60whp more for the same boost with a turbo over the M45 supercharger.

I believe that says it all, Turbo all the way if you have the funds

ALD0 · Apr 13th, 2007, 05:23 PM

Supercharge, gotta love the noise

Restyle · Apr 13th, 2007, 05:29 PM

Have you Never seen the Original Mad Max Film & been struck in awe by those Superchargers

Tigger, Eeyore & Roo · Apr 13th, 2007, 05:32 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by ALD0 (original)

Supercharge, gotta love the noise

After 3,500 miles with the supercharger, whenever I go out in the MINI on my own, I don't turn the radio on any more; just love listening to the music the engine makes

Sure, turbos have nice noises all of their own, but a supercharger has far more charisma!

Tigger.

Tigger, Eeyore & Roo · Apr 13th, 2007, 05:34 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Restyle (original)

Have you Never seen the Original Mad Max Film & been struck in awe by those Siperchargers

Oh yes, keep thinking of that one

Tigger.

CooperS4us · Apr 13th, 2007, 05:54 PM

Both forced induction systems have their pluses and minuses. Turbos tend to perform best at higher altitudes as well. Superchargers "Lose power to gain power". I personally prefer superchargers for durability and reliability. I am sure modern day turbos can make it all the way to 100K with no problems but Turbo engines experience more wear than superchargers and hence you have to be very attentive to their maintenance.

But I agree that the whine of the supercharger is a delicious, sweet sound! It is very engaging to say the least. Also by changing the pulley you are already making a significant performance gain. With the new PSA turbocharged engines the key to unlock their full performance potential lies in the ECU. Also you may have to replace the stock turbo unit for a higher capacity one to withstand added pressure. Heat management is also an issue with turbos and its been rumored that MINI/JCW have experienced heat related issues with high performance versions of the prince engine.

Superchargers are not very common in the market segment that the MINI occupies. Aside from the R52 and R53 MINIs, the only other new car in the US market that is offered with a Supercharger is the Chevrolet Cobalt SS coupe (Akin to the Vauxhall/Opel Astra). It has a 2.2L Ecotec 4 cyl engine with an eaton supercharger churning out nearly 200HP stock. Never driven it, don't know much about them (GM has not really marketed them adequately) and they are not that common. But I may swing by my closest Chevy dealer to try it out and see if it whines as good and generally how it compares to the R53 Tritec S/C engine.

IH1 · Apr 13th, 2007, 07:54 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original)

After 3,500 miles with the supercharger, whenever I go out in the MINI on my own, I don't turn the radio on any more; just love listening to the music the engine makes

Sure, turbos have nice noises all of their own, but a supercharger has far more charisma!

Tigger.

I totally agree and do the same thing! Most times a radio is not needed when you have a supercharger!!

Supercharger every time for me!

JAMIE1131 · Apr 13th, 2007, 08:12 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by IH1 (original)

I totally agree and do the same thing! Most times a radio is not needed when you have a supercharger!!

Supercharger every time for me!

Just been for a drive and I totally agree! think I'm gonna throw the radio in the bin and put a second supercharger in its place

*Vikki* · Apr 13th, 2007, 08:53 PM

i like the supercharger best

works99 · Apr 13th, 2007, 08:56 PM

dont tell DavidB that Vikki.

Quote: Originally Posted by *Vikki* (original)

i like the supercharger best

*Vikki* · Apr 13th, 2007, 09:02 PM

Parc77 · Apr 13th, 2007, 09:16 PM

I was sat at some traffic lights the other day and was quite suprised to see a mint (non kit car) Porsche 356 and a late 60's 911, I listened to those engines ticking over and thought to myself...most cars sound the same these days either diesel or petrol ok I know there are the V12's V8's etc etc but in your average street its Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Corsa, Seat people carrier..I know there are BMW 325's but all these are pretty common. Anyway all this made me think that the Supercharged S is quite unique.
Im not bothered wether the concept of Turbo or Supercharger is better than the other...the whine of a supercharged car is tuneful to a petrolheads ears(well this ones anyway

)...just like a Ferrari V12 a TVR etc, the Top end BMW's etc etc, a Cooper S with an Alta CAI sounds superb to me.

I think in this particular line of comparison, like a blockbuster film the Supercharged S was a smash hit and the Turbocharged S is the disapointing sequal with a second rate actor replacing the star of the lead role, but maybe it still has the same great director

.

Dont get me wrong I kow the Turbocharged S engine is a good one

IMO

Scrogg · Apr 13th, 2007, 09:27 PM

It was funny listening to the Technical Trainers at Plant Oxford last November at the dealer staff R56 launch training saying how "Turbos are the future" and what a huge leap forward this move was for the MINI brand.

The exact same people in 2002 were telling us how "Superchargers were the future" and how great it was that the MINI was the only small car fitted with one.

It was so obvious they didn't really mean it this time, and they were really struggling to convince anyone that they were saying it for any other reason than that they had to.

One guys opening line was along the lines of, "I know I've been telling you guys for years now that Superchargers are the daddy-pants, but now I'm telling you I was wrong!"

The pain he was feeling in having to say these words was so obvious!

CooperS4us · Apr 13th, 2007, 10:07 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Scrogg (original)

It was funny listening to the Technical Trainers at Plant Oxford last November at the dealer staff R56 launch training saying how "Turbos are the future" and what a huge leap forward this move was for the MINI brand.

The exact same people in 2002 were telling us how "Superchargers were the future" and how great it was that the MINI was the only small car fitted with one.

It was so obvious they didn't really mean it this time, and they were really struggling to convince anyone that they were saying it for any other reason than that they had to.

One guys opening line was along the lines of, "I know I've been telling you guys for years now that Superchargers are the daddy-pants, but now I'm telling you I was wrong!"

The pain he was feeling in having to say these words was so obvious!

Thanks Scrogg. Great insight. More proof that this second gen car is more about compromises than real passion for the product.

I don't want to "blow your cover"but do you work for MINI? Sales or manufacturing?

Paul · Apr 13th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Parc77 (original)

see a mint (non kit car) Porsche 356

I love the 356 Speedster, fantastic car.

Scrogg · Apr 13th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us (original)

I don't want to "blow your cover"but do you work for MINI? Sales or manufacturing?

There's no cover to blow.

I worked in Sales at a MINI dealership until the end of 2006, but never made a secret of it.

Restyle · Apr 13th, 2007, 10:18 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Scrogg (original)

There's no cover to blow.

I worked in Sales at a MINI dealership until the end of 2006, but never made a secret of it.

...and now He`s a full time Whistle Blower

Joking Scrogg - Big Respect

Apr 13th, 2007, 04:49 PM	#1
toofast MINI2 Regular Join Date: May 2002 Location: CT Local Time: 10:07 PM Posts: 199 Offline	Supercharger or Turbo charger Why did mini switch for the 07 model year... which is better?

Apr 13th, 2007, 05:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
Tigger, Eeyore & Roo I'm Back! My Classifieds Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kernow, near England Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 4,572 Offline	I believe that BMW were pretty much forced to adopt a supercharger the first time around due to problems with space (or lack of it). A supercharger has no lag and makes lovely noises (!) Unfortunately, it also wastes a lot of power, just turning itself over (I have heard the figure of 30 bhp mentioned). Whereas a turbo uses the, largely, wasted energy in the flow of the exhaust gases. Consequently a turbo charger is more economical, has better emissions and is, in theory, more tunable. Manufacturer's (in Europe, at least) are under immense pressure to reduce CO2 emissions. The CO2 output dropping from 207 to 164g/km can, I suspect, be largely put down to this change over. Having said that turbos are very tunable, the jury is still out on the scope for tuning the new motor as a whole. That's a brief summary, before someone like Roland comes on and gives us a proper answer Tigger. PS: Besides, turbos are everywhere, superchargers are very rare on production cars! Unintimated and I'm back!! For sunshine, fun and Cornish Pasties: New MINI Kernow Cornish Oggy Run 2009!

Apr 13th, 2007, 05:22 PM	#4 (permalink)
Paul Webster MINI2 Master Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Beds Cambs Northants Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 1,956 Offline	The Fireballed guys usually end up with 60whp more for the same boost with a turbo over the M45 supercharger. I believe that says it all, Turbo all the way if you have the funds Slicks 11.77@115.92mph Street tyres 12.162 @ 119.02 It's not how much you spend but how well you spend it

Apr 13th, 2007, 05:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
ALD0 Hacked the IBUS Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 9,202 Offline	Supercharge, gotta love the noise http://www.becardsmart.org.uk/

Apr 13th, 2007, 05:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
Restyle Damned My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Shropshire Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 4,266 Offline	Have you Never seen the Original Mad Max Film & been struck in awe by those Superchargers In da Wud Last edited by Restyle : Apr 13th, 2007 at 05:44 PM. Reason: typo

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Apr 13th, 2007, 04:57 PM	#2 (permalink)
JAMIE1131 MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Earl Shilton, Leics. Local Time: 03:07 AM Posts: 792 Offline	Supercharge, but I'm biased!

Apr 13th, 2007, 05:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tigger, Eeyore & Roo I'm Back! My Classifieds Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kernow, near England Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 4,572 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by ALD0 (original) Supercharge, gotta love the noise After 3,500 miles with the supercharger, whenever I go out in the MINI on my own, I don't turn the radio on any more; just love listening to the music the engine makes Sure, turbos have nice noises all of their own, but a supercharger has far more charisma! Tigger. Unintimated and I'm back!! For sunshine, fun and Cornish Pasties: New MINI Kernow Cornish Oggy Run 2009!

Apr 13th, 2007, 05:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
Tigger, Eeyore & Roo I'm Back! My Classifieds Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kernow, near England Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 4,572 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Restyle (original) Have you Never seen the Original Mad Max Film & been struck in awe by those Siperchargers Oh yes, keep thinking of that one Tigger. Unintimated and I'm back!! For sunshine, fun and Cornish Pasties: New MINI Kernow Cornish Oggy Run 2009!

Apr 13th, 2007, 05:54 PM	#9 (permalink)
CooperS4us MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Florida Local Time: 10:07 PM Posts: 947 Offline	Both forced induction systems have their pluses and minuses. Turbos tend to perform best at higher altitudes as well. Superchargers "Lose power to gain power". I personally prefer superchargers for durability and reliability. I am sure modern day turbos can make it all the way to 100K with no problems but Turbo engines experience more wear than superchargers and hence you have to be very attentive to their maintenance. But I agree that the whine of the supercharger is a delicious, sweet sound! It is very engaging to say the least. Also by changing the pulley you are already making a significant performance gain. With the new PSA turbocharged engines the key to unlock their full performance potential lies in the ECU. Also you may have to replace the stock turbo unit for a higher capacity one to withstand added pressure. Heat management is also an issue with turbos and its been rumored that MINI/JCW have experienced heat related issues with high performance versions of the prince engine. Superchargers are not very common in the market segment that the MINI occupies. Aside from the R52 and R53 MINIs, the only other new car in the US market that is offered with a Supercharger is the Chevrolet Cobalt SS coupe (Akin to the Vauxhall/Opel Astra). It has a 2.2L Ecotec 4 cyl engine with an eaton supercharger churning out nearly 200HP stock. Never driven it, don't know much about them (GM has not really marketed them adequately) and they are not that common. But I may swing by my closest Chevy dealer to try it out and see if it whines as good and generally how it compares to the R53 Tritec S/C engine. '02 Cooper CVT PW/B Leatherette, MFSW, 15" 8-spokes '05 MCS CR/W

Apr 13th, 2007, 07:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
IH1 I Love My MINI! Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Hertfordshire Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 709 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Tigger, Eeyore & Roo (original) After 3,500 miles with the supercharger, whenever I go out in the MINI on my own, I don't turn the radio on any more; just love listening to the music the engine makes Sure, turbos have nice noises all of their own, but a supercharger has far more charisma! Tigger. I totally agree and do the same thing! Most times a radio is not needed when you have a supercharger!! Supercharger every time for me!

Apr 13th, 2007, 08:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
JAMIE1131 MINI2 Master My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Earl Shilton, Leics. Local Time: 03:07 AM Posts: 792 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by IH1 (original) I totally agree and do the same thing! Most times a radio is not needed when you have a supercharger!! Supercharger every time for me! Just been for a drive and I totally agree! think I'm gonna throw the radio in the bin and put a second supercharger in its place

Apr 13th, 2007, 08:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
Vikki Winner MM best MINI ONE! My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: St Leonards-on-Sea Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 2,175 Offline	i like the supercharger best

Apr 13th, 2007, 08:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
works99 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 65 Offline	dont tell DavidB that Vikki. Quote: Originally Posted by *Vikki* (original) i like the supercharger best

Apr 13th, 2007, 09:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
Vikki Winner MM best MINI ONE! My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: St Leonards-on-Sea Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 2,175 Offline	haha

Apr 13th, 2007, 09:16 PM	#15 (permalink)
Parc77 MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Yorkshire Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 2,345 Offline	I was sat at some traffic lights the other day and was quite suprised to see a mint (non kit car) Porsche 356 and a late 60's 911, I listened to those engines ticking over and thought to myself...most cars sound the same these days either diesel or petrol ok I know there are the V12's V8's etc etc but in your average street its Ford Mondeo, Vauxhall Corsa, Seat people carrier..I know there are BMW 325's but all these are pretty common. Anyway all this made me think that the Supercharged S is quite unique. Im not bothered wether the concept of Turbo or Supercharger is better than the other...the whine of a supercharged car is tuneful to a petrolheads ears(well this ones anyway )...just like a Ferrari V12 a TVR etc, the Top end BMW's etc etc, a Cooper S with an Alta CAI sounds superb to me. I think in this particular line of comparison, like a blockbuster film the Supercharged S was a smash hit and the Turbocharged S is the disapointing sequal with a second rate actor replacing the star of the lead role, but maybe it still has the same great director . Dont get me wrong I kow the Turbocharged S engine is a good one IMO

Apr 13th, 2007, 09:27 PM	#16 (permalink)
Scrogg Home Alone Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gloucester Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 16,600 Offline	It was funny listening to the Technical Trainers at Plant Oxford last November at the dealer staff R56 launch training saying how "Turbos are the future" and what a huge leap forward this move was for the MINI brand. The exact same people in 2002 were telling us how "Superchargers were the future" and how great it was that the MINI was the only small car fitted with one. It was so obvious they didn't really mean it this time, and they were really struggling to convince anyone that they were saying it for any other reason than that they had to. One guys opening line was along the lines of, "I know I've been telling you guys for years now that Superchargers are the daddy-pants, but now I'm telling you I was wrong!" The pain he was feeling in having to say these words was so obvious!

Apr 13th, 2007, 10:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
CooperS4us MINI2 Master Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: South Florida Local Time: 10:07 PM Posts: 947 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Scrogg (original) It was funny listening to the Technical Trainers at Plant Oxford last November at the dealer staff R56 launch training saying how "Turbos are the future" and what a huge leap forward this move was for the MINI brand. The exact same people in 2002 were telling us how "Superchargers were the future" and how great it was that the MINI was the only small car fitted with one. It was so obvious they didn't really mean it this time, and they were really struggling to convince anyone that they were saying it for any other reason than that they had to. One guys opening line was along the lines of, "I know I've been telling you guys for years now that Superchargers are the daddy-pants, but now I'm telling you I was wrong!" The pain he was feeling in having to say these words was so obvious! Thanks Scrogg. Great insight. More proof that this second gen car is more about compromises than real passion for the product. I don't want to "blow your cover"but do you work for MINI? Sales or manufacturing? '02 Cooper CVT PW/B Leatherette, MFSW, 15" 8-spokes '05 MCS CR/W

Apr 13th, 2007, 10:12 PM	#18 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 40,356 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Parc77 (original) see a mint (non kit car) Porsche 356 I love the 356 Speedster, fantastic car. Our trials and tribulations living in a "bleeding edge" eco house... Oxley Woods Living

Apr 13th, 2007, 10:12 PM	#19 (permalink)
Scrogg Home Alone Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gloucester Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 16,600 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by CooperS4us (original) I don't want to "blow your cover"but do you work for MINI? Sales or manufacturing? There's no cover to blow. I worked in Sales at a MINI dealership until the end of 2006, but never made a secret of it.

Apr 13th, 2007, 10:18 PM	#20 (permalink)
Restyle Damned My Classifieds Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Shropshire Local Time: 02:07 AM Posts: 4,266 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Scrogg (original) There's no cover to blow. I worked in Sales at a MINI dealership until the end of 2006, but never made a secret of it. ...and now He`s a full time Whistle Blower Joking Scrogg - Big Respect In da Wud

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