[DaFlake]

After reading a lot of new complaints, I decided that this needed to be written. There are several things that have been bothering me that we are seeing posted here lately so this rant could be a bit long.

BUYING

First I want to talk about taking ownership of your new car. Everyone is always excited about getting your new car and that is why this point is so important to remember. INSPECT IT THROUGHLY! This is your hard earned money that you are putting on the line. Look over the car thoroughly and note any discrepancies with it right away. DO NOT SIGN FOR IT if you find major problems that you can not live with for the time being and put it all in writing. If the dealer is not willing to sign a document acknowledging the issues, then you should seriously think about leaving with your money. In some areas you have the right to reject the car and if you need to do so, DO IT! There is an old saying “A fool and his money are easily parted”. Do not be that fool. Remember that as soon as you drive it off the lot, it is yours and you no longer are urgency to the dealer. This means that if you have problems and take it in, you will be in line with everyone else and could be days without transportation. The stress is really not worth it, so let the excitement ensue AFTER you check it thoroughly.

MAINTENANCE

I have also been seeing a lot of posts about blown engines do to lack of oil and the liking. Bottom line on this is that you have to check it regularly. There are some new terms floating about like “maintenance free” and “no maintenance”. These terms do have some significant meaning to us “older” car folks. Back in the day, there used to be fittings that had to be greased regularly as well as very low mileage oil changes. This meant that we had to take our cars in on a regular basis to keep them running smoothly. However, with technology advances we have been able to really extend that time line. We lost the grease points and have bumped the oil changes up to a very large number. The engine can handle this, but because we are not changing the oil as frequently, we tend to forget that it could need some. Engines, by nature, burn oil and this level will drop over time. It is up to you, the owner, to check it and top when needed. If you fail to do this and the engine fails, it is not the dealers fault, it is yours. The same goes with coolant and any other liquid that you are required to keep an eye on. The nice thing is that the car companies have started to color code the items that you need to check under the hood. This helps you figure out what is what and, of course, you can post here and ask!

MODDING

Well, where do I begin on this one? The bottom line is that if you do this, you take the responsibility of what will or can happen. Many of us have the same engine, but not all engines are equals. What I do to my car may have bigger gains than what you see in yours. Strapping on parts for quick BHP could cost you in the near future with a trashed engine. If you are under warranty and you mod your car, be prepared to pay more money if the car fails. Why? Because you changed the original configuration of the vehicle thus releasing the car company of any responsibility for that vehicle. Such is life folks! When I made changes to my MINI I took the responsibility that if the engines fails, I would replace it taking responsibility for my actions. If you go to a professional tuner, they might carry a warranty or be able to help you out, but you are still the overall responsible party in this.

A FEW TID BITS…

My last point that I want to cover is about the new R56. Even though it has the Cooper S on the back, it is still a first generation vehicle as it is a complete makeover from the original MCS (different engine, different interior and many exterior changes as well). This means that all you lucky people that bought one are going to have to deal with every production error that came out of the factory. This was the reason that I actually bought my 06 when I did as I did not want to have to deal with that headache. EVERY car goes through this and I am honestly tired of hearing that some Japanese cars do not have these problems. Why? Because they haven’t really changed the car in many years or they make small changes over time. I truly feel for you folks, but you really need to give the dealers and MINI a chance to fix the issues. Nothing is perfect the first time around which is why I do not ever buy first model products. Look at Apple’s new IPhone; I will not buy one of those until the 3rd revision at best. Let someone else deal with the headaches and kinks that are bound to be there. Never forget that the car is made by humans so by nature it is going to be flawed as we are far from perfect.

OK, I am off my soap box for now. If I can think of anything else that needs to be said, I will update this thread.

[Snowie]

Well done for putting this thread up
I would not call this a rant at all - just pure common sense, something that seemed to be totally lacking in some of the threads I read yesterday.

People need to be aware of and take their own responsibilities when buying and running (especially when modding) any car not just a MINI.

A number of threads yesterday were in total blame mode towards MINI, Dealers and in some respects MINI2. None of this was fair at at all and in fact showed (IMHO) the immaturity of some of the members who posted.

This is an excellent forum with lots of support from very knowledgeable members who are willing to give up their time to support the MINI community with excellent tips and solutions - in many respects it is better than the MINI support system as we as members have excellent access to issues and solutions before many dealers are aware of a problem.

Yes I have been there and done it with the first batch of Volvo XC 90 T6 every built - I know the risks of being first, even when a car has been tested heavily before release. You have the Kudos of being first but you have all of the initial issues to deal with, I had lots with the Volvo however they were excellently handled by the local dealer (who did not supply the car) and it turned out to be one of the best cars I have every owned.

The key thing is take your own responsibility and when there are issues take a professional approach with the dealer.

Alan

[DaFlake]

Alan brings up a GREAT point. Your level of service is going to increase exponentially if you go in with a good attitude. This is yet another human factor that comes in to play. If you go in screaming or with a bad attitude, nobody is going to want to help you. So, take a breath and try to put a smile on your face BEFORE you deal with customer service.

[118]

thanks for your post DaFlake

totally agree with your 4th point, I get fed up with people slagging off the R56 and the problems they've had, but have managed to bite my lip so far! mine has been absolutely fine, apart from a minor issue, which my dealer has been great with. as with any car, there will always be problems at some point during ownership!

I agree, people need to give their dealers (and MINI) a fair chance to fix problems, I go along with the same attitude - go in friendly and you will get a better service. If someone has an attitude towards me at work, then I know I certainly won't do my best to be as accomodating in helping them!

[danb]

I agree with the point about R56s - anyone buying one now should be aware that there may well be problems, and possibly still for a few months to come yet. I bought my R56 expecting problems, and have been pleasantly suprised so far

Also, anyone buying a car and not maintaining it properly deserves every problem they get - if you don't know how to maintain a car, either find out or don't buy one.

Can I ask what threads in particular caused this posting? Not that I think you're wrong - I just noticed Snowie said "A number of threads yesterday were in total blame mode towards MINI, Dealers and in some respects MINI2"

[Snowie]

Quote: Originally Posted by danb (original)

Can I ask what threads in particular caused this posting? Not that I think you're wrong - I just noticed Snowie said "A number of threads yesterday were in total blame mode towards MINI, Dealers and in some respects MINI2"

Hi Dand

Yes I refer to a number of posts yesterday where frankly the attitude of some members was very questionable - however I will not name the posts or them as it could only inflame the situation more.

There was a lot of passion coming over the wrong way.

Lets leave it at that. - 'What is done is done'

Alan

[Coop2004]

The last point concerns me. You actually are discouraging people from buying a new model because for some reason it is impossible to get things right the first time? I'm sure BMW/Mini loves that comment. A new car is a ton of money and I would expect it NOT to be a ton of headaches. I hope these "first run problems" aren't as big an issue as this thread leads me to believe. So maybe the dealers should offer a " new model, step right up sucker discount".
My 2004 is looking better to me now and I was planning to trade it in for a new "S". So now I should look for a "newer S" but not a "new" S.

[DaFlake]

I agree with Snowie on this. My posting was to help people understand what they are really dealing with. The R56 is a 1st gen MINI so it is like going back to 2001 and getting the 1st MCS.

I have had the pleasure of driving a R56 and can say that I do like it a lot but it is a different car. Still very fun and still very much a MINI. In my humble opinion, the first buyers are the bravest of the bunch because when I do decide to trade up, it will be their pain that makes my new car fault free.

So my hat is off to those that took the initial plunge!

The bits above are just things that I have had to deal a lot with lately and they can start to get on your nerves. So, I figured I would rant a little.

[danb]

Quote: Originally Posted by Coop2004 (original)

You actually are discouraging people from buying a new model because for some reason it is impossible to get things right the first time?

Not discouraging - just making people aware that there are always problems in the early production stages of a new car, no matter who the manufacturer is.

When you buy an early model, you have to be prepared for problems arising. No-one is saying they shouldn't be fixed FOC, just that you will have to wait for a fix to become available.

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by Coop2004 (original)

The last point concerns me. You actually are discouraging people from buying a new model because for some reason it is impossible to get things right the first time? I'm sure BMW/Mini loves that comment. A new car is a ton of money and I would expect it NOT to be a ton of headaches. I hope these "first run problems" aren't as big an issue as this thread leads me to believe. So maybe the dealers should offer a " new model, step right up sucker discount".
My 2004 is looking better to me now and I was planning to trade it in for a new "S". So now I should look for a "newer S" but not a "new" S.

It shouldn't as MINI has a solid warranty. Most of the problems are small things that can be repaired. My point is that any 1st gen car will have its kinks. Honda, Acura, BMW, Porsche, Dodge (all of them) have problems on a new release. As a car buyer, I expect that. In fact I expected it with the Subaru and told my wife that we should wait, but she wanted that car. So, I got it for her. We were lucky with it.

FYI, you are almost into the 2nd gen of the "new" MCS. So, lots of the small issues should be resolved.

[OttoMannS]

Agree on points #1, 2 & 3

Not in full agreement with point #4.

[DaFlake]

Seems like MINI took a good formula and messed with it way to much on the R56. Hopefully they can get it sorted before next year or they are going to get hammered.

I just read a lot of the comments in that forum. It is sad to hear all of the issues but it is nothing that we hadn't heard before to be totally honest.

[OttoMannS]

I just think that MINI seek to refine the R56 too much and at the same time slashing production costs to put it together. Something is got to give....

[DaFlake]

Quote: Originally Posted by OttoMannS (original)

I just think that MINI seek to refine the R56 too much and at the same time slashing production costs to put it together. Something is got to give....

Dang! Now I actually agree with you there... One of the things that I don't like about my MINI is the cheapness of the interior....

Well, we have agreed on ONE thing! WOOHOO, let's call it a week!

[OttoMannS]

LOL! Good call DaFlake!

My main quibbles with the interior are the center console/speedo, the cheap headliner material and the lack of height adjustable front seat belts, untlike the previous car.

[FunFindus]

I think when people buy any Mini, they are buying a quality product and they are paying a premium for it. We dont get a discount when buying, finance isnt the cheapest (no 0% from a uk mini dealer).

So really you cant blame people getting upset as they have paid thousands more for a car compared to say a ford Fiesta or Vauxhall Corsa and then to find the car is not working properly.

Of course cars do breakdown but I can believe and understand the frustration people feel when they encounter problems with an expensive brand new car.

Id also find it interesting to see how many problems a 1 Series BMW suffers compared to a MIni? Im not sure where this information would come from, but if the rates of complaints are similar then we can say a Mini is not problamatic car, but the whole BMW Group just operates this way.

[FunFindus]

Ok

I have found a reliability index, based on What car? and insurance warrenty claims. I am glad to say the Mini does really well.

Here is the web site

Reliability Index :: how reliable is your car?

The Mini has a reliability index of 13.95

The BMW 3 series has an index of 36.00

The index average for all cars is 112. Therefore a car that is less reliable will score higher than 112. A car that is more realiable than an average car will score less.

The MINI is more realiable than a BMW 3 Series.

[Andy P]

Exellent post Da Flake, Snowie is right that it is just common sense. Our R53 has had a few problems and I have managed to build up a good relationship with the dealer and everything gets fixed no probs at all. As my mum says manners cost nothing and if you deal with somebody with this attitude then you will normally get better service.

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by FunFindus (original)

Ok

I have found a reliability index, based on What car? and insurance warrenty claims. I am glad to say the Mini does really well.

Here is the web site

Reliability Index :: how reliable is your car?

The Mini has a reliability index of 13.95

The BMW 3 series has an index of 36.00

The index average for all cars is 112. Therefore a car that is less reliable will score higher than 112. A car that is more realiable than an average car will score less.

The MINI is more realiable than a BMW 3 Series.

And here is their UK top 10:

Rank Car Make Index Rating

1. DAIHATSU 27.59
2. MAZDA 28.81
3. HONDA 37.91
4. SUZUKI 44.96
5. SKODA 51.95
6. MINI 64.63
7. NISSAN 65.21
8. HYUNDAI 69.59
9. TOYOTA 70.63
10. CITROEN 73.07

Doesn't feature many "premium brands" does it?

[Paul]

Here is their "worst 10".

Now I know where all the premium brands are!

1. JEEP 247.03
2. PORSCHE 242.99
3. LANDROVER 206
4. ALFA ROMEO 153.65
5. JAGUAR 151.99
6. AUDI 141.28
7. CHRYSLER 139.36
8. SAAB 132.65
9. MERCEDES 121.8
10. RENAULT 120.27