MINI2

mugsy86 · Oct 14th, 2007, 05:36 AM

I've been looking at getting an MCS, but this could be a general question:
So I'll post it here and apologise in advance if its only applicable to the MCS.

I want to know whether paying the extra for facelift version is actually going to be worth it?

1. What changed (particularly on the MCS? heard the gearbox changed, is this true?)
2. Will not having the facelift version affect depreciation?
3. I've heard build quality is better post facelift, is this true?

Many thanks! I know its a very open question, but any advice would be appreciated!!!
Thanks!!!

kezman50 · Oct 14th, 2007, 06:47 AM

1st off the face lift didn't kick in until about July 04 not Jan, I remember this fairly well as this indeed was my exact dilemma (pre or post) at the time and I eventually went with post/face lift Aug 04 build on my MCS along with the 4-£500 ish increase by the way. So there's your first difference.

Crickey....racking my brains here then erm......

1) Power went from 163 up to 170 and 10nm up on torque to 220nm.

this was achieved by

a) 5th Generation of Eaton Super Charger implemented (which basically borrowed the Teflon coated blades from the JCW
b) Slight revision of the exhaust system.
c) Slight tweak to the ECU
d) Gear Ratios were shortened (not to be confused with the cooper's facelift that went from a midland to a Getrag gearbox.

2) New style Xenon headlights with chili

3) Then of course a number of slight changes were implemented right across the range that I won't detail....but they included things like going from a 5 to a 3 piece facia. Bigger rear view mirror. 10mm higher side bolsters. Removal of the clock from the headliner. CD prep became standard. New colours introduced (Hyper Blue specifically on MCS) etc etc

Actually with different design front and rear bumpers, the one and Cooper got more of an external face lift than the MCS.

Probably a few things I've not listed, but that is the crux of it.,

kezman50 · Oct 14th, 2007, 07:03 AM

I've just thought of something else that may influence your buying decision. One thing that miffed me shortly afterwards, was that the Limited Slip Diff was introduced say 5-6 months after July 04 face lift (BMW called it "Refresh"). Personally with the revisons in power and gearing of the refresh I would of liked to of seen the LSD as an option straight away .....but it wasn't introduced till say Jan ish' 05, or somewhere around there (others may tweak that detail on the date)

To address your question about build quality by the way........it probably went up one notch. No big deal.

Paul · Oct 14th, 2007, 09:32 AM

Full, illustrated guide: http://www.mini2.com/forum/faq.php?f...ni_generations

mugsy86 · Oct 14th, 2007, 07:46 PM

Thanks, all this was really useful!
So the gearbox in the S never actually changed between pre and post facelift? only the ratio's were shortened? I take it most people view this as an improvement?

Paul · Oct 14th, 2007, 07:56 PM

That's correct. (On both counts).

rocky79 · Oct 24th, 2007, 10:29 PM

So has anyone acutaly driven a pre and post facelift cooper s and noticed a significant difference. To the eye its virtually impossible to spot, and I cant imagine much difference in performance in the extra increase in power being so small?

Ive driven both on test drives, but not close together and to be honest if i didnt know there had been a facelift I wouldnt have noticed. In fact the bloke in the Mini garage told me the one i was driving was a facelift, when it wasnt...

al_s · Oct 24th, 2007, 11:11 PM

We have an '03 S and an '05 S convertible and the later one definately feels more urgent and that it has more get up and go, even the wife noticed when she first drove it.

rellik666 · Oct 24th, 2007, 11:47 PM

I also have a pre and post facelife s

I agree with al_s my 07 s is definately a tighter more agressive drive, but that may also because it is new!

I also like some of the post face lift touchs to the interior, lighting and trim things.

But I wouldn't say that it would be a big influencing factor in me buying a second hand S.
I love my 02 S, and I love My 07 S Cab.

Finishing and reliability were always an issue with early models though! Find what you want at a good price!

rocky79 · Oct 25th, 2007, 10:50 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by rellik666 (original)

Find what you want at a good price!

Agreed!

I suppose this is an endless debate really. One thing that seems to get missed from searching around on these forums is thatBMW dont just bring the changes in because its always better for the car, sometimes it will be around cost saving. I assume fitting a 3 piece dash is cheaper than a 5 piece etc.

Anyway, im just happy to be getting a cooper s...

Capsaisin · Oct 25th, 2007, 02:19 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by rocky79 (original)

Agreed!

I suppose this is an endless debate really. One thing that seems to get missed from searching around on these forums is thatBMW dont just bring the changes in because its always better for the car, sometimes it will be around cost saving. I assume fitting a 3 piece dash is cheaper than a 5 piece etc.

Anyway, im just happy to be getting a cooper s...

The main reason BMW introduces these changes is to justify an increase to the price of the base model.

I love MINI, Laura · Oct 25th, 2007, 02:57 PM

Its a secret!

coopersooper · Oct 25th, 2007, 05:56 PM

Ive raced a pre and post MCS and I won......I was driving the pre MCS!

Next test run, old JCW MCS 53 vs JCW MCS 56/(maybe 55 if I can find one)

Oct 14th, 2007, 05:36 AM	#1
mugsy86 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2007 Local Time: 03:51 AM Posts: 7 Offline	What Changed With the Jan '04 Facelift? I've been looking at getting an MCS, but this could be a general question: So I'll post it here and apologise in advance if its only applicable to the MCS. I want to know whether paying the extra for facelift version is actually going to be worth it? 1. What changed (particularly on the MCS? heard the gearbox changed, is this true?) 2. Will not having the facelift version affect depreciation? 3. I've heard build quality is better post facelift, is this true? Many thanks! I know its a very open question, but any advice would be appreciated!!! Thanks!!! Last edited by mugsy86 : Oct 14th, 2007 at 05:39 AM. Reason: incomplete post

Oct 24th, 2007, 11:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
rellik666 Keeping The Top Off! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Melbourne Local Time: 01:51 PM Posts: 473 Offline	I also have a pre and post facelife s I agree with al_s my 07 s is definately a tighter more agressive drive, but that may also because it is new! I also like some of the post face lift touchs to the interior, lighting and trim things. But I wouldn't say that it would be a big influencing factor in me buying a second hand S. I love my 02 S, and I love My 07 S Cab. Finishing and reliability were always an issue with early models though! Find what you want at a good price! OH MY OH MY! I own a Sidewalk!Almost.........

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Oct 14th, 2007, 06:47 AM	#2 (permalink)
kezman50 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Leicester Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 154 Offline	1st off the face lift didn't kick in until about July 04 not Jan, I remember this fairly well as this indeed was my exact dilemma (pre or post) at the time and I eventually went with post/face lift Aug 04 build on my MCS along with the 4-£500 ish increase by the way. So there's your first difference. Crickey....racking my brains here then erm...... 1) Power went from 163 up to 170 and 10nm up on torque to 220nm. this was achieved by a) 5th Generation of Eaton Super Charger implemented (which basically borrowed the Teflon coated blades from the JCW b) Slight revision of the exhaust system. c) Slight tweak to the ECU d) Gear Ratios were shortened (not to be confused with the cooper's facelift that went from a midland to a Getrag gearbox. 2) New style Xenon headlights with chili 3) Then of course a number of slight changes were implemented right across the range that I won't detail....but they included things like going from a 5 to a 3 piece facia. Bigger rear view mirror. 10mm higher side bolsters. Removal of the clock from the headliner. CD prep became standard. New colours introduced (Hyper Blue specifically on MCS) etc etc Actually with different design front and rear bumpers, the one and Cooper got more of an external face lift than the MCS. Probably a few things I've not listed, but that is the crux of it.,

Oct 14th, 2007, 07:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
kezman50 MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Leicester Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 154 Offline	I've just thought of something else that may influence your buying decision. One thing that miffed me shortly afterwards, was that the Limited Slip Diff was introduced say 5-6 months after July 04 face lift (BMW called it "Refresh"). Personally with the revisons in power and gearing of the refresh I would of liked to of seen the LSD as an option straight away .....but it wasn't introduced till say Jan ish' 05, or somewhere around there (others may tweak that detail on the date) To address your question about build quality by the way........it probably went up one notch. No big deal.

Oct 14th, 2007, 09:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 37,538 Offline	Full, illustrated guide: http://www.mini2.com/forum/faq.php?f...ni_generations

Oct 14th, 2007, 07:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
mugsy86 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2007 Local Time: 03:51 AM Posts: 7 Offline	Thanks, all this was really useful! So the gearbox in the S never actually changed between pre and post facelift? only the ratio's were shortened? I take it most people view this as an improvement?

Oct 14th, 2007, 07:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
Paul Trained Monkey My Classifieds Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Bedfordshire Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 37,538 Offline	That's correct. (On both counts).

Oct 24th, 2007, 10:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
rocky79 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2007 Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 26 Offline	So has anyone acutaly driven a pre and post facelift cooper s and noticed a significant difference. To the eye its virtually impossible to spot, and I cant imagine much difference in performance in the extra increase in power being so small? Ive driven both on test drives, but not close together and to be honest if i didnt know there had been a facelift I wouldnt have noticed. In fact the bloke in the Mini garage told me the one i was driving was a facelift, when it wasnt...

Oct 24th, 2007, 11:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
al_s MINI2 Newbie My Classifieds Join Date: Dec 2004 Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 25 Offline	We have an '03 S and an '05 S convertible and the later one definately feels more urgent and that it has more get up and go, even the wife noticed when she first drove it.

Oct 25th, 2007, 10:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
rocky79 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Oct 2007 Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 26 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by rellik666 (original) Find what you want at a good price! Agreed! I suppose this is an endless debate really. One thing that seems to get missed from searching around on these forums is thatBMW dont just bring the changes in because its always better for the car, sometimes it will be around cost saving. I assume fitting a 3 piece dash is cheaper than a 5 piece etc. Anyway, im just happy to be getting a cooper s...

Oct 25th, 2007, 02:19 PM	#11 (permalink)
Capsaisin cave capsicum Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Crewe Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 3,399 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by rocky79 (original) Agreed! I suppose this is an endless debate really. One thing that seems to get missed from searching around on these forums is thatBMW dont just bring the changes in because its always better for the car, sometimes it will be around cost saving. I assume fitting a 3 piece dash is cheaper than a 5 piece etc. Anyway, im just happy to be getting a cooper s... The main reason BMW introduces these changes is to justify an increase to the price of the base model.

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Oct 25th, 2007, 02:57 PM	#12 (permalink)
I love MINI, Laura MINI2 Master Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Portsmouth,Hampshire Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 2,721 Offline	Its a secret!

Oct 25th, 2007, 05:56 PM	#13 (permalink)
coopersooper MINI2 Regular Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Banbury Local Time: 04:51 AM Posts: 75 Offline	Ive raced a pre and post MCS and I won......I was driving the pre MCS! Next test run, old JCW MCS 53 vs JCW MCS 56/(maybe 55 if I can find one)