[oldnell]

This is something that's bugged me about lots of cars over the ten years I've been driving.

It seems to me that it is important that turn indicators are visible to others. So why, then, do some car manufacturers place the indicators right next to a bright headlight? This does nothing but make it harder to see the indicator.

The most silly indicator placement was when Peugeot (I think it was them) decided that the best place for the turn indicators was on the inside of the headlights (i.e. towards the centre of the car).

I was always happy that the MINI didn't do this and, lo and behold, they've done it on the second generation models.

Maybe I'm just missing the point, but it seems so illogical to me.

Oli

[Root Ginger]

You're quite right. It is dangerous and I'm surprised the EU have not banned manufacturers from doing it. They are far less visible with the headlight illuminated.

[Fin]

It seems not to make a difference where I live. The practice of not using indicators at all (or incorrectly) seems to have exploded where I live. I constantly see:

• People using a roundabout with out indicating at all.
• People turning right at a roundabout, but not using their 'right' indicator and just indicating left when they come to their exit.
• People exiting a dual carriageway without indicating.
• People drifiting from lane to lane on a motorway with no indication.

And there is never a traffic cop around to catch them. I think I should invent a camera that catches people who don't indicate.

[South Shore Lad]

I remember a clip on one of those "Police/Camera/Action" type programmes whereby the joyrider/criminal being chased was so well brought up that even in the height of the pursuit (and at great speed/danger to others) he still used his indicators at every junction, when overtaking etc!!

[adam_Randell]

This is true, however i think that may be why they also have the side repeaters on either the wing mirror or a pannel. I may be wrong.

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

I've got to agree on this one.

There's another problem, especially with Peugeots; take the Peugeot 407, for example. The indicator is so far up the wing that it's impossible to see unless you are right around that side of the car.

I was approaching a mini roundabout recently and a 407 was entering it from my right. I thought he was about to turn left and I started to pull out, then I realised he was turning right and I had to brake suddenly. I hadn't seen its overstylised indicator until it was too late. Here's a picture of a 407 from the angle it was approaching me; note the right hand indicator (above the leading edge of the front wheel) is completely hidden from this angle

[Tigger, Eeyore & Roo]

Quote: Originally Posted by adam_Randell (original)

This is true, however i think that may be why they also have the side repeaters on either the wing mirror or a pannel. I may be wrong.

It's been a legal requirement in the UK for every car manufactured to have additional side indicators since about 1986, whether or not the front indicator is obscured by the headlamp. Even the classic MINI had them fitted from around D reg.

[Paul]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

It seems not to make a difference where I live. The practice of not using indicators at all (or incorrectly) seems to have exploded where I live. I constantly see:

• People using a roundabout with out indicating at all.
• People turning right at a roundabout, but not using their 'right' indicator and just indicating left when they come to their exit.
• People exiting a dual carriageway without indicating.

So you're what's living in my loft?! Either that or this is a nation wide phenomena.

[rellik666]

Wow,

I actually think that it may be an international problem!

Australia is terrible for lack of indicator useage! I sometimes think that car dealers don't even know what they are for, cause no one seems to use em, so obviously no-one is talking about them!

And don't talk to me about the R56 with its indicators inside the rear brake lights!

[Root Ginger]

Didn't you know that indicators have been optional extras on all cars since 1986?

To Fin: I know on a motorway and dual carriageway you must indicate when pulling out to the right but do you know that it is not required when pulling back to the left? Personally I will sometimes use my left indicator on the motorway depending on the situation i.e. if think the toe rag in the inside lane is going to try and undertake me as I pull over

[Fin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Root Ginger (original)

Didn't you know that indicators have been optional extras on all cars since 1986?

To Fin: I know on a motorway and dual carriageway you must indicate when pulling out to the right but do you know that it is not required when pulling back to the left? Personally I will sometimes use my left indicator on the motorway depending on the situation i.e. if think the toe rag in the inside lane is going to try and undertake me as I pull over

Yes I did know that, although only recently. I heard the reasoning behind it is that as the middle and right hand lane of the motorway are for overtaking only it is obvious that the car that has just overtaken you will pull back in to the left hand lane.

However, as nobody seems to use the middle and right hand lanes correctly, I always use my indicators when moving back to the left hand lane. I think it's just good practice, and as you say it will give someone notice if they are going to try and undertake you.

I was recently driving on the M56 to Manchester airport to pick someone up. The traffic was very light and for a while there were no cars around, so I was pootling along in the left hand lane. Then I started to approach a car sat in the middle lane at about 60-65 mph. I continued on in the left hand lane until I was approx. 3 car lengths behind and slowed down to the same speed, indicated right, and moved into the middle lane. I paused there for a few seconds, then indicated right again to move to the right hand lane and accelerated to 70 mph (ish ) to pass the car until I was approx. 3 car lengths ahead of the car which still remained in the middle lane. Then I indicated left to move back to the middle lane in front of the car, paused again, and indicated left one final time to move back to the left hand lane and continued on my way.


I was making as defined movements as I could to try and emphasise to this driver the fact that I had to cross 2 lanes to overtake them as the were incorrectly HOGGING the middle lane. They didn't realise and think 'Oh, I should move into the left hand lane'.

And to top it off, they had their high beams on!

[Streeters]

and as yet no one has even touched on the ever increasing trend for the additional side indicators that were on the front wings now appear to be creeping back to the door mirrors! Great on the e class merc, the car only then has to poke out by around 5 feet before we can see the indicators. ........go figure ?

[ALD0]

VW, Merc etc have got it right by putting indicators built in to the Wing mirrors.

[oldnell]

Agreed on having repeaters on the mirror. I think it's a great idea.

I predict that in the future they'll figure out how to make materials that light up smoothly and without you realising that the material is a light. I don't know, but perhaps the entire shell of a wing mirror might light up, but looking at it when it's turned off you wouldn't be able to tell that it could do that.

Or perhaps I'm wrong.

Oli

[Fin]

Quote: Originally Posted by oldnell (original)

Agreed on having repeaters on the mirror. I think it's a great idea.

I predict that in the future they'll figure out how to make materials that light up smoothly and without you realising that the material is a light. I don't know, but perhaps the entire shell of a wing mirror might light up, but looking at it when it's turned off you wouldn't be able to tell that it could do that.

Or perhaps I'm wrong.

Oli

^^^ I'll have what he's having!

[ALD0]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

^^^ I'll have what he's having!

LOL-Me too!

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by oldnell (original)

Agreed on having repeaters on the mirror. I think it's a great idea.

You'll still need some at the very front somewhere .

Quote: Originally Posted by oldnell (original)

I predict that in the future they'll figure out how to make materials that light up smoothly and without you realising that the material is a light. I don't know, but perhaps the entire shell of a wing mirror might light up, but looking at it when it's turned off you wouldn't be able to tell that it could do that.

Or perhaps I'm wrong.

Oli

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

^^^ I'll have what he's having!

I'll have 2 off what ever he's having as long as it's legal! .

They already do a glass that you can tint totally black and clear again at the touch of a button, it was fitted to a prototype car. eg lock the car up it goes black so nobody could see in & it also keeps the car cool , open it up and it goes clear again keeping it legal.

And a inventor discovered a plastic, when you add an electric current it lit up green and they actually got TV pictures through it (although a bit green), but the possibilities are there .

These things will filter down eventually.

I'm talking as if I've already had some of what he's been having. .

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

Yes I did know that, although only recently. I heard the reasoning behind it is that as the middle and right hand lane of the motorway are for overtaking only it is obvious that the car that has just overtaken you will pull back in to the left hand lane.

However, as nobody seems to use the middle and right hand lanes correctly, I always use my indicators when moving back to the left hand lane. I think it's just good practice, and as you say it will give someone notice if they are going to try and undertake you.

I was recently driving on the M56 to Manchester airport to pick someone up. The traffic was very light and for a while there were no cars around, so I was pootling along in the left hand lane. Then I started to approach a car sat in the middle lane at about 60-65 mph. I continued on in the left hand lane until I was approx. 3 car lengths behind and slowed down to the same speed, indicated right, and moved into the middle lane. I paused there for a few seconds, then indicated right again to move to the right hand lane and accelerated to 70 mph (ish ) to pass the car until I was approx. 3 car lengths ahead of the car which still remained in the middle lane. Then I indicated left to move back to the middle lane in front of the car, paused again, and indicated left one final time to move back to the left hand lane and continued on my way.


I was making as defined movements as I could to try and emphasise to this driver the fact that I had to cross 2 lanes to overtake them as the were incorrectly HOGGING the middle lane. They didn't realise and think 'Oh, I should move into the left hand lane'.

And to top it off, they had their high beams on!

You do realise that there is no offence in the UK for under taking. It is advised not to do it in the highway code but there is no specific offence. You would be prosecuted by the Police for driving without due care and attention if you were to do so. However, if you signal your intentions and make the other driver aware of your presence i.e by flashing your lights, you are perfectly entitled to drive past them on the inside. I have been driven by a policeman who explained this. It all came about because the police tried to prosecute a driver for driving without due care as he undertook someone. In the video from the police car he could clearly be seen indicating and the motorway signs lit up as he flashed his lights to warn the driver. The defence successfully argued that the driver took all precautions to warn the other motorist of his intentions and that consequently he could not be deemed to be driving without due care and attention. Consequently forces now know that provided a driver signals his attentions there is nothing that they can do. This saves you having to do two lane slides to get past a middle lane hog too which is far more sensible.

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by Root Ginger (original)

You do realise that there is no offence in the UK for under taking. It is advised not to do it in the highway code but there is no specific offence. You would be prosecuted by the Police for driving without due care and attention if you were to do so. However, if you signal your intentions and make the other driver aware of your presence i.e by flashing your lights, you are perfectly entitled to drive past them on the inside. I have been driven by a policeman who explained this. It all came about because the police tried to prosecute a driver for driving without due care as he undertook someone. In the video from the police car he could clearly be seen indicating and the motorway signs lit up as he flashed his lights to warn the driver. The defence successfully argued that the driver took all precautions to warn the other motorist of his intentions and that consequently he could not be deemed to be driving without due care and attention. Consequently forces now know that provided a driver signals his attentions there is nothing that they can do. This saves you having to do two lane slides to get past a middle lane hog too which is far more sensible.

Quite useful to know when you are up against a " middle lane hog" who either doesn't know how to use the motorway or just choses to ignore the rules of the motorway .

[Root Ginger]

Quote: Originally Posted by Randall Raines (original)

Quite useful to know when you are up against a " middle lane hog" who either doesn't know how to use the motorway or just choses to ignore the rules of the motorway .

I had to use it tonight on the way into work. It makes perfect sense and is safer than having to perform four lane changes. I just wish they would clamp down on lane hogs. It's becoming more and more frequent and I believe it's a prime cause of slow speeds and congestion on Motorways at peak times.