[Hugo]

Its just a money making scheme after Gordon Brown burrowed to much money and now 'Darling' has to tidy up his mess, typical labour.

they have to cut down rain forests to produce soy for bio fuel but trees obsorb the most CO2, so trying to make green fuel is worse for the environment. Its evolution, green house gases only have a small impact on the environment. Why aren't China and USA not getting hit as hard as us?

[Hickster]

Here's a quick physics lesson for all those doubting the impact of CO2 on the environment:

It's a physical fact that CO2 traps longwave radiation (basically reflected/emitted Infra Red) more efficiently than any other gas in the atmosphere other than methane and water vapour. Hence, increasing the CO2 concentration will increase the amount of longwave radiation in the lower atmosphere, therefore increasing the temperature. In contrast, the stratosphere will cool - because obviously there will be less longwave radiation getting there as it's all being trapped within the troposhere (the bit we live in and where weather happens).

It's pointless to talk in absolute terms of %CO2 since it is a trace gas. You have to look at the % increase in concentration and since the 1960's this is about 20%. Now there are some question marks over the precise relationship between increasing CO2 concentration and increasing temperature - they are certainly not linear, it's more likely an exponential relationship.

This on it's own is not the main reason for the panic over climate change. The biggest issue is related to changes in the feedback mechanisms in the climate system caused by CO2. For example, increasing CO2 will increase temperatures - hence the atmosphere will be capable of holding more water vapour. Water vapour is 4 times more effective at trapping 'heat' than CO2 and hence temperatures will rise further. This would be a runaway greenhouse effect. The negative feedbacks which counter the warming are for example, increasing water vapour leading to increased cloud cover. This would increase the amout of radiation reflected back into space - cooling the planet. No one really knows precisely how the feedbacks will balance out, but there is concensus opinion that it's likely there will be a bias towards the positive side.

Whilst the UK only represents a small proportion of the global CO2 output, 'we' have signed up to agree to cut emissions by 60% by 2020. And that's nothing to do with who's in government. Unfortuantely, people are only willing to act when it hurts them in the pocket and I'm afraid Carbon taxing/offsetting will be here to stay for a long long time no matter who is in power.

[r1_kde]

Its ok the UK will raise the prices and will then save the world.

They can keep adding more to petrol and tax but I will always continue to drive how I want in what I want. no amount of money rises will stop me... I refuse public transport

I have had enough now of this country and will now consider moving out. I will take my mini else where

[baskers]

Question/Point to ponder:

-If we do cut emissions by 60% by 2020 (would be lovely) - and we're all driving round in less polluting, more effecient cars, and all the R53 Cooper Ss and 4x4s are scrapped (buried under the ground), and the government aren't getting those steady billions flowing into the account through road and fuel tax... what will they then charge?

-Once a government finds a revenue source, something else needs to be hit. I find it staggering that although a Polo Bluemotion does less than 100g CO2/km it's tax exempt - no doubt we are subsidising this (not an illogical conclusion). But, I only drive 7,000 miles/year in my Cooper S - who now produces more polloution/CO2 - the Bluemotion driven 70,000 miles a year or mine... Hmmm. Not fair, eh?

[baskers]

[quote=r1_kde;3360501

They can keep adding more to petrol and tax but I will always continue to drive how I want in what I want. no amount of money rises will stop me... I refuse public transport
[/quote]

If Mr. Darling read these forums... heck, he probably does ()

The governement, if they want us out of our cars and into public transport need to provide cheap, effecient, punctual services - all over the UK (apart from major cities) - and this clearly is not in place.

Why this government feels that everything needs to be made for profit is beyond me - they need to provide a service to their nation, to their citizens; to their tax payers.

About time they put our taxes and pennies to something we can benefit from - the reason most of us are so resentful of this fiasco is that we don't seem to get anything back (train price increases, bins collected every other week) - when we get something back, then we'll recognise that these rises and taxes are necessary.

As I've stated before, the apathy in this nation is apauling. The sit-down, shut-up behaviour is tiresome. For a nation infamous for our moaning, it's about time we put it into practice.

Rip off Britain. RIP.

[Hickster]

Quote: Originally Posted by baskers

If we do cut emissions by 60% by 2020 (would be lovely) - and we're all driving round in less polluting, more effecient cars, and all the R53 Cooper Ss and 4x4s are scrapped (buried under the ground), and the government aren't getting those steady billions flowing into the account through road and fuel tax... what will they then charge?

A similar argument could be raised about smoking. If everyone quit tomorrow, the government would be significantly out of pocket. Yet we all agree smoking is bad for you right?

Quote: Originally Posted by baskers

Once a government finds a revenue source, something else needs to be hit. I find it staggering that although a Polo Bluemotion does less than 100g CO2/km it's tax exempt - no doubt we are subsidising this (not an illogical conclusion). But, I only drive 7,000 miles/year in my Cooper S - who now produces more polloution/CO2 - the Bluemotion driven 70,000 miles a year or mine... Hmmm. Not fair, eh?

That's what fuel duty is for. If you drive a low emission car and do loads of miles, you'll still pay more tax than a high emission car doing not many miles. This is not ideal by any means, but it's certainly not grossly unfair.

[baskers]

Quote: Originally Posted by alski (original)

life time costs of electric cars, what pollution to make batteries and enviromental cost of disposal,
also not anti american but if all those guys paid £5.00 per gallon, then oil would be back to 30.00 a barrel
all the EU trucks driving shoulder to shoulder on the 1st 4 lanes of the newly widend m25 just illustrate the problem, as road tax pays for our roads, but a toll on the mainland
europe pays for theirs
if my mcs is neary a £1 day soon i would expect our euro truck guys to have to pay a least £10 a day to use our roads, pay at the ports on the the way in and on the way out how simple is that?
100% compliance and a few 100million for the greens
i would also add that they need to post a 50k bond to cover all the side swipes, due to mirrors on wrong side etc

Interesting point re paying at the port.


When I drive through Switzerland I have to buy annual road tax for my vehicle.

That's the country I need to move to. Perfect.

[hoojkel]

Car pollution 'cut by 98%' | The Sun |HomePage|Motors

Cars are now 98% cleaner than in 1976 so why are we paying more. Its industry which pumps out unregulated gasses which is causing the problem, particularly in the US.
There are 5 UK companies which produced more Co2 emissions last year than all the UK cars put together, one of them is EON. Are these companies being hammered by tax??

[feenaldo]

Call me selfish, but *** car tax and the environment, it's going to take more to get me out of my MCS, the amount we all pay out for basic things, like bread etc, and then council tax etc I have to have some fun in between getting sand kicked in my face by Gordon Brown.

I'm not a raging activist either, its true... you just look! It makes me more angry seeing EU people arrive here and get paid like £700 odd in benefits... thats all my sodding money I've just been taxed. Its about time we stopped supporting everybody... if I went to France I couldn't claim anything so we do we all bend over for Gordon Brown and ask "How high?" when he says "Jump!"

Now Im going to go drive my MCS in a spirited manor down some country backroads and justify all this ****!

[alski]

just to cheer every one up our 18 ton derv spewing truck the size of a furnture removal wagon costs £110.00 for the last 6 months road tax, about 10-12mpg
just shows how consumers fair....

[Shaun]

Ha ha its £60 to tax a bicycle for trade use and they are so polluting.

The cost of vehicle tax for cars, motorcycles, light goods vehicles and trade licences : Directgov - Motoring

[TallAndy]

Bicycles (only) not over 450kg
£66.00

WTF?

Thats insane

[MINI-Morgan]

Who's better and worse?

1) the owner of a MINI that does 4K miles a year

2) the owner of a 1.2L Micra that does 20K miles a year

Is it about how much petrol you use or how you use it??

Car TAX is just another dumb ass way to try and control peoples buying habits and **** over everyone else whos already bought their cars. If they were being intelligent they'd add a new year class of 2008 onwards. We arent exactly going to just go take our cars down the scrap yard because they use more petrol than another car.

Its all crazy! I thought this is what petrol tax was for? the more you use the more you pay.......

[TallAndy]

Exactly my point that road tax is pointless, everyone pays TAX per mile on fuel so whats the point....

[Jove]

Everyone complains about it but they are not prepared to do anything about it. Why not get out there and do something?

Just another point if everyone moved to using "Green Transport" They would just shift the tax on to something else.

The next government that comes in isn't going to remove these taxes, why would they? They will just blame everything on the last government.

It a shame this country has fallen so far.

[giler]

About time they made things transparent and just called it emission tax rather than road tax.
I didn't vote for the to**ers in the first place!!

[r1_kde]

Think its time all high tax payers gave a reason for it and tuned there cars and removed the cats, lets start polluting more... lol

[Fin]

Quote: Originally Posted by Goonery (original)

You do have a choice, We all have a choice, it's called the ballot box, there is also civil disobedience, protest and a hundred other ways to change things.
At the end of the day, the government is elected to do our bidding, if they don' t measure up then all we have to do is tell them en masse. A quiet but orderly revolution. I feel a Number 10 petition coming on to start with......

The ballot box will take too long, and the apathy in this country is like a cancer that keeps growing.

What we need to do is march into Parliament and get rid of them. Who is going to stop us? Most of the Army/Navy/RAF are posted abroad 'spreading democracy' and Labour have just shafted the Met over their payrise so they won't care.

Viva la Revolution

[r1_kde]

I am feeling that

[giler]

I need to get more carbon for my £300 !! Just to supplement it I think I will go out into the garden and chop some more trees down and have a bonfire each week, I may chuck a few old tyres on for good measure, I may throw the recycling boxes on too!! Viva la revolution.