[supa-dupa-cooper]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoggyCornFlakes (original)

(Mind you Supa-Dupa - there's nowt wrong with a petrol Cooper keeps pace with the best of them if needed )

Hehe, you had an R50 Cooper though, ive never driven one of those so dont know what its like

[airbusA346]

Quote: Originally Posted by KillerByte (original)

Anyone for a Cooper vs Dooper journey from London to Edinburgh and back?

Top Gear

[CTurbinado]

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

I disagree with diesel cars having lower road tax than petrol cars.

same here.

[RooniusMaximus]

I must admit, we never considered the possibility of buying a Diesel variant - and I'm sold on the benefits of diesel. Our other car is 530d and that really is a peach of an engine. At anything other than idle, you'd never know you weren't in a petrol car.

Plus, on motorways journies and b-roads, the additional torque means there's very little you can't get past. However, we had two diesel A4s before this and the first was a four pot. Yes it was quick enough, but noisy. We upgraded to a V6 and I swore I wouldn't have another 4-pot diesel.

As for the Mini Cooper Vs CooperD, there was an episode of Fifth gear some time ago that 'tested' the two. In their test (and I use the term loosely) they reckoned it would take 4 years at average mileage for the D to pay for itself. And, in their opinion, those four years would be spent driving a car that wasn't as much fun.

Here's the link:

YouTube - 5th Gear MINI Cooper/Cooper D Test

[RooniusMaximus]

Ooh - that's clever.

I was just expecting a URL link and it's posted the video in the thread.

Enjoy.

[MINIMAT]

Quote: Originally Posted by KenL (original)

I have never gone into a fuel station and seen a sign saying, "sorry - diesel sold out!"

Actually I have. Savacentre's petrol station at Oldbury had indeed once run out of diesel when I went there to fill up. Sorry petrol owners you still haven't convinced me. I had one of the new petrol Mini's recently for two weeks and I was so glad to get back to my own car.

Let me bring you to the attention of the first post.

"Prices have risen due to rocketing sales of diesel cars and high demand for the fuel, which refineries have failed to meet."

If this is the reason why diesel is currently more expensive then won't diesel supply increase?

Seems clear to me. Note yes diesel is taxed more on fuel at the pump but that is something else and not in the first post which I thought this thread was about.

Also what about car tax? How do you think it will go in the future? I'm willing to bet my car tax is going to stay low. How about yours?

Finally mileage. Nice that everyone has to add the rider about low or average mileage. What is average? I buy a car to drive it. The further I drive the better my reason for buying a diesel. Sounds like a winner to me.

So in the long term I can look forward to cheaper car tax, and the further I drive the more I'd have saved. Throw in diesel engine's reputation for reliability and long term you are better off.

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMAT (original)

Actually I have. Savacentre's petrol station at Oldbury had indeed once run out of diesel when I went there to fill up. Sorry petrol owners you still haven't convinced me. I had one of the new petrol Mini's recently for two weeks and I was so glad to get back to my own car.

Let me bring you to the attention of the first post.

"Prices have risen due to rocketing sales of diesel cars and high demand for the fuel, which refineries have failed to meet."

If this is the reason why diesel is currently more expensive then won't diesel supply increase?

Seems clear to me. Note yes diesel is taxed more on fuel at the pump but that is something else and not in the first post which I thought this thread was about.

Also what about car tax? How do you think it will go in the future? I'm willing to bet my car tax is going to stay low. How about yours?

Finally mileage. Nice that everyone has to add the rider about low or average mileage. What is average? I buy a car to drive it. The further I drive the better my reason for buying a diesel. Sounds like a winner to me.

So in the long term I can look forward to cheaper car tax, and the further I drive the more I'd have saved. Throw in diesel engine's reputation for reliability and long term you are better off.

This thread was NOT started as a diesel verses petrol debate , as I've already stated .

I started it to highlight the economic myth that is, a diesel car will save it's owner money. This is only true once a certain milage has been reached. The average being 46000 miles. It's just simple mathematics.

If you want a petrol verses diesel debate, then go and start a thread debating the subject .

[JBA]

The flaw in arguing on the basis of initial cost to buy, and fuel costs, that diesel requires a huge mileage to even out costs, is that much depends on the rate of depreciation for that model. For most cars there is a figure available for 3 year usage @ 12000 miles pa, including all costs and the final value. Overall cost is then expressed in pence per mile. Without this quantification, all else is guesswork

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original)

The flaw in arguing on the basis of initial cost to buy, and fuel costs, that diesel requires a huge mileage to even out costs, is that much depends on the rate of depreciation for that model. For most cars there is a figure available for 3 year usage @ 12000 miles pa, including all costs and the final value. Overall cost is then expressed in pence per mile. Without this quantification, all else is guesswork

What makes you think depreciation wasn't factored in to the equation then ?. The days when diesel cars fetched a premium on the second hand market are long gone .

[cook1e]

Although a Diesel costs more than a petrol car to buy the resale value is higher particularly for Doopers compared with Coopers. In fact having looked around at 1 year old Cooper D's they seem to be selling for just a 3 or 4 hundred £ less than a brand new car so depreciation is at least as good as a petrol Cooper if not better.

Noting that the Road Tax has been reduced to £20- a year for a Dooper and that they will be exempt from Kenny's congestion charge in London later this year I would expect that the Dooper's will be pretty sort after going forward and residual values should be excellent particularly in the Siuth East. For most cars Diesels are usually less impacted by higher mileages than petrol engined cars, not sure whther or not this will be the case for Minis though.

Therefore as long as the fuel cost per mile is less you'll be quids in running a Diesel compared with a petrol even if you don't do a high annual mileage.

Dooper Performance on the road is in reality better than a petrol Cooper as well with the 50 - 70 accelaration time 2 secs better than the petrol right where you need it for overtaking......

[Kinster]

I'm saying bye bye to my MCSC and saying hi to a diesel

[Kinster]

i do 20k miles a year. Should I get a 3 Series diesel or Clubman S?

[mj62mj62]

This thread seems confusing enough with people making different points, but I have to ask:

Am I the only that feels compelled to drive fuel efficient cars?

I'm self employed and travel all over the place, and feel that driving fuel efficient cars is the least I can do to minimize my impact on the environment.

While this thread is about the costs, I would have assumed the demand (at least partially) came from people not wanting to be wasteful...

[mister.t]

If the difference between the R56 One and R56 Cooper are anything like the difference between the Dooper and Cooper, then I'd have the Dooper - I personally wouldn't mind paying the premium for that extra shove

I have a 2003 1.3 Fiesta LX, and I also drove a 1.25 LX of the same age. They are like chalk and cheese - The 1.25 was flat, and the 1.3 is the polar opposite, all the torque is nice and low down in the rev-range. The 1.25 is a bit quicker to 60 and at top end too. Fuel economy and performance are not the be-all and end all - I love my 1.3 (despite having it for 4 months, its been in the garage for about 2 of them ) because it fits my needs - Its a lazy car, drive everywhere in 4th, and it drives very well. The fact of the matter is we buy a car that suits our personal needs - Many Dooper drivers prefer the diesel over the petrol Cooper/One for any number of reasons which I cannot be bothered to discolse - Nuff said

I thought the Petrol Cooper was fairly quick, so the Dooper must be magic

[JBA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original)

What makes you think depreciation wasn't factored in to the equation then ?. The days when diesel cars fetched a premium on the second hand market are long gone .

What made me think depreciation wasn't factored in? 1. That it wasn't mentioned. 2. That depreciation far outweighs other costs assuming the car was not to be kept for a very long time. 3. that there is data available that does not depend on personal taste/old wives tales. 4. that diesel does indeed fetch a premium, and its likely this will increase. None of which got a mention. Except the OWT

[ALD0]

Very interesting debate, I agree, low mileage drivers, why pay £1400 more for a car, and then 9p more a litre for fuel...
Your insurance may be cheaper, by approx £200 (for me against a S) and the tax well £170 but more of a fun factor with an S I think

[laura f]

Quote: Originally Posted by ALD0 (original)

Very interesting debate, I agree, low mileage drivers, why pay £1400 more for a car, and then 9p more a litre for fuel...
Your insurance may be cheaper, by approx £200 (for me against a S) and the tax well £170 but more of a fun factor with an S I think

I agree, I do 7 miles each way to work through traffic and with some bits of clear road. Currently the diesel I'm driving is no more cost effective then the S - it's not worth the added increase in fuel price against the better mpg, plus I know what I'd rather drive

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original)

What made me think depreciation wasn't factored in? 1. That it wasn't mentioned. 2. That depreciation far outweighs other costs assuming the car was not to be kept for a very long time. 3. that there is data available that does not depend on personal taste/old wives tales. 4. that diesel does indeed fetch a premium, and its likely this will increase. None of which got a mention. Except the OWT

OWT

[JBA]

Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original)

OWT

Old Wives Tales.

[Hyper Active]

Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original)

What made me think depreciation wasn't factored in? 1. That it wasn't mentioned. 2. That depreciation far outweighs other costs assuming the car was not to be kept for a very long time. 3. that there is data available that does not depend on personal taste/old wives tales. 4. that diesel does indeed fetch a premium, and its likely this will increase. None of which got a mention. Except the OWT

Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original)

Old Wives Tales.

PMSL , so The AA are in the business of spreading Old Wives Tales are they .

Of cause they don't. This thread is not about the cost of ownership. That's different for every single car on sale today.

This thread and the information from The AA that inspired it, is just a demonstration of how many miles are needed to be covered, if you choose a diesel over a petrol car, before you reach the break even point. Nothing more nothing less. It's also worth pointing out that this for the average diesel, and not for individual cars.

It should be obvious to anyone. That if you buy a much more expensive car that's more economical, over a cheaper less economical one. It will take a lot of miles to re coupe that extra money spent on the car. Sadly not everyone is aware of this fact. Hence why i started this thread .