MINI2

JBA · Apr 11th, 2008, 10:23 AM

You stated baldly "which means an oil-burner is no longer the cheaper alternative."

Whether this comes from the AA, or is your spin, matters not. Its wrong. However, I've noticed that the AA talk gibberish about motoring costs: they exclude the most important aspect, depreciation. Much of their material on fuels on their site is out of date (diesels do not require more oil changes than petrol engines) and incorrect: M-way driving does not bring diesel and petrol fuel consumption rates to parity! A 7% difference in the cost of fuel is still outweighed by the greater saving on fuel consumed by a diesel, so at any level the statement above is incorrect.

Hyper Active · Apr 12th, 2008, 05:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original)

You stated baldly "which means an oil-burner is no longer the cheaper alternative."

Whether this comes from the AA, or is your spin, matters not. Its wrong. However, I've noticed that the AA talk gibberish about motoring costs: they exclude the most important aspect, depreciation. Much of their material on fuels on their site is out of date (diesels do not require more oil changes than petrol engines) and incorrect: M-way driving does not bring diesel and petrol fuel consumption rates to parity! A 7% difference in the cost of fuel is still outweighed by the greater saving on fuel consumed by a diesel, so at any level the statement above is incorrect.

I've now amended that line in the first post, to better reflect the point of this thread

.

All the figures in the first post are provided by the AA. So what exactly are you disputing about them then

?.

JBA · Apr 12th, 2008, 07:14 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original)

I've now amended that line in the first post, to better reflect the point of this thread

.

All the figures in the first post are provided by the AA. So what exactly are you disputing about them then

?.

1. . Although they place the mfrs premium for diesel up-front, they say nothing about the residuals for gas versus diesel. 2. That the residuals are more important (comparing like with like) than the fuel costs alone. 4. That it is likely that diesel/petrol prices will alter again, as they have before. Other than that, its all kosher

KenL · Apr 12th, 2008, 08:55 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original)

Whether this comes from the AA, or is your spin, matters not. Its wrong. However, I've noticed that the AA talk gibberish about motoring costs: they exclude the most important aspect, depreciation. Much of their material on fuels on their site is out of date (diesels do not require more oil changes than petrol engines) and incorrect: M-way driving does not bring diesel and petrol fuel consumption rates to parity! A 7% difference in the cost of fuel is still outweighed by the greater saving on fuel consumed by a diesel, so at any level the statement above is incorrect.

Click on this link to see what What Car are saying about the diesel compared with petrol R56 MINI Coopers.

http://www.whatcar.com/depreciation-...=0&ED3=0&ED4=0

...and from Glasse's Guide, comparing the two cars at a year old:

Cooper Petrol 2007 10k miles
Excellent condition: £13250
Average condition: £11800
Below average condition: £10500

Cooper D 2007 10k miles
Excellent condition: £14100
Average condition: £12600
Below average condition: £11200

I agree that a lot of diesel cars will do a lot better than petrols on depreciation, but MINI seems to be different.

Fin · Apr 13th, 2008, 01:17 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by mj62mj62 (original)

This thread seems confusing enough with people making different points, but I have to ask:

Am I the only that feels compelled to drive fuel efficient cars?

I'm self employed and travel all over the place, and feel that driving fuel efficient cars is the least I can do to minimize my impact on the environment.

While this thread is about the costs, I would have assumed the demand (at least partially) came from people not wanting to be wasteful...

It depends on what environmental impact you are talking about. Diesel cars acheive more mpg than petrol cars and produce a little less carbon dioxide. So, with regard to carbon dioxide emissions, you will have less 'environmental impact' with a diesel car than you will with a petrol car.

However, diesel is, quite frankly a dirty fuel. The number of particulates produced from burning diesel are much higher than that of petrol. These severely affect air quality; you only need to drive behind a bus to see the crap they put out from their exhausts. This is why I disagree with higher tax on petrol cars compared to diesels. People talk about pollution and only seem to refer to carbon dioxide, and the government only tax carbon dioxide.

Quite frankly, this increased tax on petrol cars is a money making exercise. If we all switched to diesel they would hammer us on the road tax for reducing the air quality. With the current policy they can claim to be doing something about global warming, so that's all that matters eh?

MINI-Morgan · Apr 13th, 2008, 09:40 AM

Granted Diesel chuck out more fumes out the exhaust that cause pollution but then both are pretty equal at the end of the day. NOX is more of a worry to humans

Fin · Apr 13th, 2008, 09:45 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original)

Granted Diesel chuck out more fumes out the exhaust that cause pollution but then both are pretty equal at the end of the day. NOX is more of a worry to humans

Exactly, they are pretty equal yet there is less tax on diesels.

And actually I'm not worried about nitrogen oxide emissions, in fact they make me laugh

MINI-Morgan · Apr 13th, 2008, 11:19 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

Exactly, they are pretty equal yet there is less tax on diesels.

And actually I'm not worried about nitrogen oxide emissions, in fact they make me laugh

Well we all know the government are full of crap 99.999% of the time so its no suprise. Since more than half of NOX emissions are produced by cars you'd think they would be aiming to do something about it as its just behind CO2 as a green house gas. Luckily manufactures like BMW are doing their own pre cats/NOX containments to try and combat it.

Yeah nothing like adding an extra nitrogen for laughing for a while

Weird In Wiltshire · Apr 13th, 2008, 11:33 AM

Hey, Andrew, can't say this surprises me; I've never been that convinced that diesel is best; when I get my MINI next year I'll re-think but feel I'll stick to petrol and just fill up at the Superstores, as they do offer a great rate.

Hyper Active · Apr 13th, 2008, 11:43 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original)

1. . Although they place the mfrs premium for diesel up-front, they say nothing about the residuals for gas versus diesel. 2. That the residuals are more important (comparing like with like) than the fuel costs alone. 4. That it is likely that diesel/petrol prices will alter again, as they have before. Other than that, its all kosher

Below is a quote copied and pasted from the AA's website, which shows the AA also place importance on residuals as you do

.

Quote:

Depreciation All cars lose value over the years and this is the biggest single factor to consider

But the second biggest motoring cost is the price of fuel. And this is getting closer in importance to depreciation as pump prices go up. It could well be in the future that the price of fuel becomes the single biggest cost to the motorist, if prices keep going up as they are at present.

The point of this thread, is to show how long a diesel car takes to recoup the extra purchase price, over it's petrol equivalent. If i was thinking of buying a new car, and was undecided as to whether to choose the diesel or the petrol version, then i would consider that information to be of some importance in making my decision

.

I have known for some time, that you have to do a lot of miles to reach the break even point. But i didn't realise the milage had got as high as 46k

. And i would think it was a suprise to most if not all who have read this thread.

supa-dupa-cooper · Apr 13th, 2008, 11:54 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original)

And i would think it was a suprise to most if not all who have read this thread.

Not really, I couldnt really give a monkies, when I buy a car I dont really thnk about how much it will be worth when I go to sell it, or whether its going to be more expensive to run etc, I buy a car because I want it

I was told by my dealership yesterday that if I was to sell the car now, yes I would have lost money on it (all cars will do) but I wouldnt have lost that much, because of what it is. At the moment because of dealer allocations they are quoting end August for a new Cooper D. So its still very much in demand by the looks of things whether its more expensive to run or not.

Hyper Active · Apr 13th, 2008, 12:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by supa-dupa-cooper (original)

Not really, I couldnt really give a monkies, when I buy a car I dont really thnk about how much it will be worth when I go to sell it, or whether its going to be more expensive to run etc, I buy a car because I want it

I was told by my dealership yesterday that if I was to sell the car now, yes I would have lost money on it (all cars will do) but I wouldnt have lost that much, because of what it is. At the moment because of dealer allocations they are quoting end August for a new Cooper D. So its still very much in demand by the looks of things whether its more expensive to run or not.

Yes that's been my buying philosophy up till now as well Jo

. Though maybe not quite to the same extent that you hammered the options list

.

So have you seen any Doopers on your dealers forecourt ?. I would imagine there rearer than rocking horse $#!t right now

. Probably will be for a while yet too

.

supa-dupa-cooper · Apr 13th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Any Cooper D's that they have had, have been sold really quickly

and despite the ridiculously high spec on mine I think it would also go quickly as well (minus the roof graphic of course

)

skat · Apr 13th, 2008, 01:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by supa-dupa-cooper (original)

Any Cooper D's that they have had, have been sold really quickly

and despite the ridiculously high spec on mine I think it would also go quickly as well (minus the roof graphic of course

)

Reckon your roof graphic would actually sell it for you ~ though of course the fact it's a Dooper with incredibly high spec and a wicked colour would probably sway most buyers anyways

supa-dupa-cooper · Apr 13th, 2008, 01:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by skat (original)

Reckon your roof graphic would actually sell it for you ~ though of course the fact it's a Dooper with incredibly high spec and a wicked colour would probably sway most buyers anyways

Maybe

But if I sold the car and had another, I wouldnt want another car driving about with the exact same graphic

Weird In Wiltshire · Apr 13th, 2008, 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by supa-dupa-cooper (original)

Not really, I couldnt really give a monkies, when I buy a car I dont really thnk about how much it will be worth when I go to sell it, or whether its going to be more expensive to run etc, I buy a car because I want it

I was told by my dealership yesterday that if I was to sell the car now, yes I would have lost money on it (all cars will do) but I wouldnt have lost that much, because of what it is. At the moment because of dealer allocations they are quoting end August for a new Cooper D. So its still very much in demand by the looks of things whether its more expensive to run or not.

I guess this sums it up - it's a very personal choice whether you look at the bodywork, fuel efficiency - we are all different and have our own ideas so don't worry about the small things.

MINIMAT · Apr 13th, 2008, 11:50 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original)

These severely affect air quality; you only need to drive behind a bus to see the crap they put out from their exhausts.

There's a bit of a difference between a modern diesel car that 's so green the engine switches off rather than idle and a bus built in the 70's. (Though even the modern buses are greener these days.) Sure you are not trying to use a stereotype image of diesel to make a point?

MINIMAT · Apr 13th, 2008, 11:57 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original)

I have known for some time, that you have to do a lot of miles to reach the break even point. But i didn't realise the milage had got as high as 46k

. And i would think it was a suprise to most if not all who have read this thread.

Where in this is 'Mini' mentioned?

A diesel car costs on average £1,400 more to buy than its petrol equivalent. A driver must now clock up over 46,000 miles before the benefits of fuel efficiency can be seen. At the start of this year, to break even with a petrol-engined car, the distance was 45,000 miles.

So which diesel Mini are we comparing with which petrol Mini? Can it be any more vague? Doesn't prove anything unless you can compare actual running costs of each variant with others.

mj62mj62 · Apr 14th, 2008, 06:21 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMAT (original)

There's a bit of a difference between a modern diesel car that 's so green the engine switches off rather than idle and a bus built in the 70's. (Though even the modern buses are greener these days.) Sure you are not trying to use a stereotype image of diesel to make a point?

I agree - most modern diesels have a DPF (diesel particulate filter) meaning a lot of that gets filtered out. There are many modern diesel busses and their exhaust is nothing like that of the older busses.

Either way, based on the present science, diesel is the more environmentally friendly choice and as fuel costs get up to £1.50 this year I think we'll see Diesels having a much higher resale value.

Even if they were somehow equally damaging, since a diesel car goes to the pump about half as often as a petrol, that's less fuel being burned for the fuel tankers to transport that fuel to the pump, not to mention around the world from the refineries.

Fin · Apr 14th, 2008, 10:15 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMAT (original)

There's a bit of a difference between a modern diesel car that 's so green the engine switches off rather than idle and a bus built in the 70's. (Though even the modern buses are greener these days.)

I am not talking about busses in the 1970's, I am talking about busses in my local area with are ~2-5 years old. Of course diesel technology (as well as petrol) has improved, I never said that it hasn't. My point has been that the road tax system is based purely on CO2 emissions and not the other harmful pollutants, of which some, diesel emits more of. I would like the road tax to equal for both.

Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMAT (original)

Sure you are not trying to use a stereotype image of diesel to make a point?

Yes, I am sure I am not. Cheers.

Apr 12th, 2008, 08:55 PM	#84 (permalink)
KenL MINI2 Master Join Date: May 2002 Location: Edinburgh Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 5,216 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original) Whether this comes from the AA, or is your spin, matters not. Its wrong. However, I've noticed that the AA talk gibberish about motoring costs: they exclude the most important aspect, depreciation. Much of their material on fuels on their site is out of date (diesels do not require more oil changes than petrol engines) and incorrect: M-way driving does not bring diesel and petrol fuel consumption rates to parity! A 7% difference in the cost of fuel is still outweighed by the greater saving on fuel consumed by a diesel, so at any level the statement above is incorrect. Click on this link to see what What Car are saying about the diesel compared with petrol R56 MINI Coopers. http://www.whatcar.com/depreciation-...=0&ED3=0&ED4=0 ...and from Glasse's Guide, comparing the two cars at a year old: Cooper Petrol 2007 10k miles Excellent condition: £13250 Average condition: £11800 Below average condition: £10500 Cooper D 2007 10k miles Excellent condition: £14100 Average condition: £12600 Below average condition: £11200 I agree that a lot of diesel cars will do a lot better than petrols on depreciation, but MINI seems to be different. Red/Black R56 Cooper

Apr 13th, 2008, 09:40 AM	#86 (permalink)
MINI-Morgan MINI Obsessed... My Classifieds Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southampton, Hants Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 4,651 Offline	Granted Diesel chuck out more fumes out the exhaust that cause pollution but then both are pretty equal at the end of the day. NOX is more of a worry to humans One Man, One Project......find out what happens next at MINIProject.co.uk For MINIs in the south it can only be South Coast New MINI Club

Apr 13th, 2008, 11:19 AM	#88 (permalink)
MINI-Morgan MINI Obsessed... My Classifieds Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Southampton, Hants Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 4,651 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original) Exactly, they are pretty equal yet there is less tax on diesels. And actually I'm not worried about nitrogen oxide emissions, in fact they make me laugh Well we all know the government are full of crap 99.999% of the time so its no suprise. Since more than half of NOX emissions are produced by cars you'd think they would be aiming to do something about it as its just behind CO2 as a green house gas. Luckily manufactures like BMW are doing their own pre cats/NOX containments to try and combat it. Yeah nothing like adding an extra nitrogen for laughing for a while One Man, One Project......find out what happens next at MINIProject.co.uk For MINIs in the south it can only be South Coast New MINI Club

Apr 13th, 2008, 11:33 AM	#89 (permalink)
Weird In Wiltshire Land of Pewsey Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pewsey, Wilts. SN9 Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 912 Offline	Hey, Andrew, can't say this surprises me; I've never been that convinced that diesel is best; when I get my MINI next year I'll re-think but feel I'll stick to petrol and just fill up at the Superstores, as they do offer a great rate. Be Positive And Shine

Apr 13th, 2008, 11:54 AM	#91 (permalink)
supa-dupa-cooper In S Club Heaven!! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cloud MINI Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 19,553 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original) And i would think it was a suprise to most if not all who have read this thread. Not really, I couldnt really give a monkies, when I buy a car I dont really thnk about how much it will be worth when I go to sell it, or whether its going to be more expensive to run etc, I buy a car because I want it I was told by my dealership yesterday that if I was to sell the car now, yes I would have lost money on it (all cars will do) but I wouldnt have lost that much, because of what it is. At the moment because of dealer allocations they are quoting end August for a new Cooper D. So its still very much in demand by the looks of things whether its more expensive to run or not. * The Italian Job 2008......Team 50 - Sponsor Us Here!* UNION JACK OWNERS CLUB GB002

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Apr 11th, 2008, 10:23 AM	#81
JBA MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Wilds of Lancashire Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 150 Offline	You stated baldly "which means an oil-burner is no longer the cheaper alternative." Whether this comes from the AA, or is your spin, matters not. Its wrong. However, I've noticed that the AA talk gibberish about motoring costs: they exclude the most important aspect, depreciation. Much of their material on fuels on their site is out of date (diesels do not require more oil changes than petrol engines) and incorrect: M-way driving does not bring diesel and petrol fuel consumption rates to parity! A 7% difference in the cost of fuel is still outweighed by the greater saving on fuel consumed by a diesel, so at any level the statement above is incorrect.

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Apr 12th, 2008, 05:46 PM	#82 (permalink)
Hyper Active MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Watford, Herts. UK Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 2,199 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original) You stated baldly "which means an oil-burner is no longer the cheaper alternative." Whether this comes from the AA, or is your spin, matters not. Its wrong. However, I've noticed that the AA talk gibberish about motoring costs: they exclude the most important aspect, depreciation. Much of their material on fuels on their site is out of date (diesels do not require more oil changes than petrol engines) and incorrect: M-way driving does not bring diesel and petrol fuel consumption rates to parity! A 7% difference in the cost of fuel is still outweighed by the greater saving on fuel consumed by a diesel, so at any level the statement above is incorrect. I've now amended that line in the first post, to better reflect the point of this thread . All the figures in the first post are provided by the AA. So what exactly are you disputing about them then ?.

Apr 12th, 2008, 07:14 PM	#83 (permalink)
JBA MINI2 Regular Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Wilds of Lancashire Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 150 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original) I've now amended that line in the first post, to better reflect the point of this thread . All the figures in the first post are provided by the AA. So what exactly are you disputing about them then ?. 1. . Although they place the mfrs premium for diesel up-front, they say nothing about the residuals for gas versus diesel. 2. That the residuals are more important (comparing like with like) than the fuel costs alone. 4. That it is likely that diesel/petrol prices will alter again, as they have before. Other than that, its all kosher

Apr 13th, 2008, 01:17 AM	#85 (permalink)
Fin Giggity-goo! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cloudbase Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 2,544 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by mj62mj62 (original) This thread seems confusing enough with people making different points, but I have to ask: Am I the only that feels compelled to drive fuel efficient cars? I'm self employed and travel all over the place, and feel that driving fuel efficient cars is the least I can do to minimize my impact on the environment. While this thread is about the costs, I would have assumed the demand (at least partially) came from people not wanting to be wasteful... It depends on what environmental impact you are talking about. Diesel cars acheive more mpg than petrol cars and produce a little less carbon dioxide. So, with regard to carbon dioxide emissions, you will have less 'environmental impact' with a diesel car than you will with a petrol car. However, diesel is, quite frankly a dirty fuel. The number of particulates produced from burning diesel are much higher than that of petrol. These severely affect air quality; you only need to drive behind a bus to see the crap they put out from their exhausts. This is why I disagree with higher tax on petrol cars compared to diesels. People talk about pollution and only seem to refer to carbon dioxide, and the government only tax carbon dioxide. Quite frankly, this increased tax on petrol cars is a money making exercise. If we all switched to diesel they would hammer us on the road tax for reducing the air quality. With the current policy they can claim to be doing something about global warming, so that's all that matters eh?

Apr 13th, 2008, 09:45 AM	#87 (permalink)
Fin Giggity-goo! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cloudbase Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 2,544 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MINI-Morgan (original) Granted Diesel chuck out more fumes out the exhaust that cause pollution but then both are pretty equal at the end of the day. NOX is more of a worry to humans Exactly, they are pretty equal yet there is less tax on diesels. And actually I'm not worried about nitrogen oxide emissions, in fact they make me laugh

Apr 13th, 2008, 11:43 AM	#90 (permalink)
Hyper Active MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Watford, Herts. UK Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 2,199 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by JBA (original) 1. . Although they place the mfrs premium for diesel up-front, they say nothing about the residuals for gas versus diesel. 2. That the residuals are more important (comparing like with like) than the fuel costs alone. 4. That it is likely that diesel/petrol prices will alter again, as they have before. Other than that, its all kosher Below is a quote copied and pasted from the AA's website, which shows the AA also place importance on residuals as you do . Quote: Depreciation All cars lose value over the years and this is the biggest single factor to consider But the second biggest motoring cost is the price of fuel. And this is getting closer in importance to depreciation as pump prices go up. It could well be in the future that the price of fuel becomes the single biggest cost to the motorist, if prices keep going up as they are at present. The point of this thread, is to show how long a diesel car takes to recoup the extra purchase price, over it's petrol equivalent. If i was thinking of buying a new car, and was undecided as to whether to choose the diesel or the petrol version, then i would consider that information to be of some importance in making my decision . I have known for some time, that you have to do a lot of miles to reach the break even point. But i didn't realise the milage had got as high as 46k . And i would think it was a suprise to most if not all who have read this thread.

Apr 13th, 2008, 12:20 PM	#92 (permalink)
Hyper Active MINI2 Master Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Watford, Herts. UK Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 2,199 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by supa-dupa-cooper (original) Not really, I couldnt really give a monkies, when I buy a car I dont really thnk about how much it will be worth when I go to sell it, or whether its going to be more expensive to run etc, I buy a car because I want it I was told by my dealership yesterday that if I was to sell the car now, yes I would have lost money on it (all cars will do) but I wouldnt have lost that much, because of what it is. At the moment because of dealer allocations they are quoting end August for a new Cooper D. So its still very much in demand by the looks of things whether its more expensive to run or not. Yes that's been my buying philosophy up till now as well Jo . Though maybe not quite to the same extent that you hammered the options list . So have you seen any Doopers on your dealers forecourt ?. I would imagine there rearer than rocking horse $#!t right now . Probably will be for a while yet too .

Apr 13th, 2008, 12:24 PM	#93 (permalink)
supa-dupa-cooper In S Club Heaven!! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cloud MINI Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 19,553 Offline	Any Cooper D's that they have had, have been sold really quickly and despite the ridiculously high spec on mine I think it would also go quickly as well (minus the roof graphic of course ) * The Italian Job 2008......Team 50 - Sponsor Us Here!* UNION JACK OWNERS CLUB GB002

Apr 13th, 2008, 01:23 PM	#94 (permalink)
skat MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 23 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by supa-dupa-cooper (original) Any Cooper D's that they have had, have been sold really quickly and despite the ridiculously high spec on mine I think it would also go quickly as well (minus the roof graphic of course ) Reckon your roof graphic would actually sell it for you ~ though of course the fact it's a Dooper with incredibly high spec and a wicked colour would probably sway most buyers anyways

Apr 13th, 2008, 01:36 PM	#95 (permalink)
supa-dupa-cooper In S Club Heaven!! Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Cloud MINI Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 19,553 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by skat (original) Reckon your roof graphic would actually sell it for you ~ though of course the fact it's a Dooper with incredibly high spec and a wicked colour would probably sway most buyers anyways Maybe But if I sold the car and had another, I wouldnt want another car driving about with the exact same graphic * The Italian Job 2008......Team 50 - Sponsor Us Here!* UNION JACK OWNERS CLUB GB002

Apr 13th, 2008, 02:54 PM	#96 (permalink)
Weird In Wiltshire Land of Pewsey Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Pewsey, Wilts. SN9 Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 912 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by supa-dupa-cooper (original) Not really, I couldnt really give a monkies, when I buy a car I dont really thnk about how much it will be worth when I go to sell it, or whether its going to be more expensive to run etc, I buy a car because I want it I was told by my dealership yesterday that if I was to sell the car now, yes I would have lost money on it (all cars will do) but I wouldnt have lost that much, because of what it is. At the moment because of dealer allocations they are quoting end August for a new Cooper D. So its still very much in demand by the looks of things whether its more expensive to run or not. I guess this sums it up - it's a very personal choice whether you look at the bodywork, fuel efficiency - we are all different and have our own ideas so don't worry about the small things. Be Positive And Shine

Apr 13th, 2008, 11:50 PM	#97 (permalink)
MINIMAT MINIMAT Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Birmingham Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 823 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Fin (original) These severely affect air quality; you only need to drive behind a bus to see the crap they put out from their exhausts. There's a bit of a difference between a modern diesel car that 's so green the engine switches off rather than idle and a bus built in the 70's. (Though even the modern buses are greener these days.) Sure you are not trying to use a stereotype image of diesel to make a point?

Apr 13th, 2008, 11:57 PM	#98 (permalink)
MINIMAT MINIMAT Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Birmingham Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 823 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by Hyper Active (original) I have known for some time, that you have to do a lot of miles to reach the break even point. But i didn't realise the milage had got as high as 46k . And i would think it was a suprise to most if not all who have read this thread. Where in this is 'Mini' mentioned? A diesel car costs on average £1,400 more to buy than its petrol equivalent. A driver must now clock up over 46,000 miles before the benefits of fuel efficiency can be seen. At the start of this year, to break even with a petrol-engined car, the distance was 45,000 miles. So which diesel Mini are we comparing with which petrol Mini? Can it be any more vague? Doesn't prove anything unless you can compare actual running costs of each variant with others.

Apr 14th, 2008, 06:21 AM	#99 (permalink)
mj62mj62 MINI2 Newbie Join Date: Feb 2008 Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 6 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMAT (original) There's a bit of a difference between a modern diesel car that 's so green the engine switches off rather than idle and a bus built in the 70's. (Though even the modern buses are greener these days.) Sure you are not trying to use a stereotype image of diesel to make a point? I agree - most modern diesels have a DPF (diesel particulate filter) meaning a lot of that gets filtered out. There are many modern diesel busses and their exhaust is nothing like that of the older busses. Either way, based on the present science, diesel is the more environmentally friendly choice and as fuel costs get up to £1.50 this year I think we'll see Diesels having a much higher resale value. Even if they were somehow equally damaging, since a diesel car goes to the pump about half as often as a petrol, that's less fuel being burned for the fuel tankers to transport that fuel to the pump, not to mention around the world from the refineries.

Apr 14th, 2008, 10:15 AM	#100 (permalink)
Fin Giggity-goo! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cloudbase Local Time: 12:29 AM Posts: 2,544 Offline	Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMAT (original) There's a bit of a difference between a modern diesel car that 's so green the engine switches off rather than idle and a bus built in the 70's. (Though even the modern buses are greener these days.) I am not talking about busses in the 1970's, I am talking about busses in my local area with are ~2-5 years old. Of course diesel technology (as well as petrol) has improved, I never said that it hasn't. My point has been that the road tax system is based purely on CO2 emissions and not the other harmful pollutants, of which some, diesel emits more of. I would like the road tax to equal for both. Quote: Originally Posted by MINIMAT (original) Sure you are not trying to use a stereotype image of diesel to make a point? Yes, I am sure I am not. Cheers.