[REDHOT CHILLI COOPER]

Thats exactly what I wish I had taken this afternoon.

Been working under the MINI doing a bit of maintenance and cleaning and had been using a sturdy set of axle stands positioned in the right areas to make things safe. Anyway I was finishing up tidying away and had the car on the deck when I realized I need to jack the car quickly to just carry out a last minute adjustment, and I used the car jack from the boot (as my trolley jack will not fit under a lowered MINI!!). It would be OK as I wasn't even taking the wheel off and only jacking the tyre an inch off the ground.

Then I had a moment of complete madness and took the tyre off without using axle stands!!

I was working within the wheel arch when the jack slipped, but not to worry as the axle was saved from any damage by landing on the concrete by neatly landing on my now sorely bruised foot .

Pinned to the floor by my foot I then had to retrieve the jack myself, as I was lone working, and trying to stay calm I managed to slowly jack the car and remove my now VERY painfully bruised foot.

So here I am in front of the PC feeling sorry for myself with my foot aching and feeling pretty embarrassed, but just wanted to point out how these things always seem to happen when cutting corners or not concentrating, and it's pretty much ruined my weekend too.

Moral of the story........ ALWAYS use axle stands when working under the car, even if it's just a quick job .

Oh and if you can, get some Toetectors.


Hindsight is a much underrated asset.

[PmP]

Was the brake disc pinning you to the ground? Ouch!!!!!

Did you not have a wedge at either side of at least one of the wheels?

Where do you put the axle stands as I cant get mine high enough to get stands under the axle. Resorted to putting a spare rim I have under the axle.

[BRG/Blk Cooper S]

Ouch - you are very lucky, it could have been far worse..

I was also wondering re the location for axle stands on the Mini - I'm quite sure I have them in the correct place (using common sense), however this is my first front-wheel drive independent rear suspension car.

Are there any docs about to show the correct axle stand locations for the 1st gen Mini?

Cheers, Geoff.

[REDHOT CHILLI COOPER]

Quote: Originally Posted by PmP (original)

Was the brake disc pinning you to the ground? Ouch!!!!!

Did you not have a wedge at either side of at least one of the wheels?

Where do you put the axle stands as I cant get mine high enough to get stands under the axle. Resorted to putting a spare rim I have under the axle.

Quote: Originally Posted by drainaudio (original)

Ouch - you are very lucky, it could have been far worse..

I was also wondering re the location for axle stands on the Mini - I'm quite sure I have them in the correct place (using common sense), however this is my first front-wheel drive independent rear suspension car.

Are there any docs about to show the correct axle stand locations for the 1st gen Mini?

Cheers, Geoff.

Luckily the disc missed and the bottom of the hub was pinning my foot, doesn't bear thinking about if the disc made contact .

I did have the front wheels chocked too. Must have not had the bottom of the jack in the correct position though.

I put the axle stand where the rear trailing arm connects to the chassis. It's nice and strong but a little inboard for my liking though and if anyone knows of a better or correct position then please suggest it. I know the jacking point is solid enough but when your using the jack it's obviously impossible to position an axle stand there.

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by REDHOT CHILLI COOPER (original)

Moral of the story........ ALWAYS use axle stands when working under the car, even if it's just a quick job .

Hindsight is a much underrated asset.

Very good advice & should always be followed (the old wheel underneath is also good advice ) .

I did it once when I was just starting out in life, like you "REDHOT CHILLI COOPER" I had a lucky escape, both legs under a car car jacked up on a scissor jack doing the brake pads or something, I had to move to get something & the jack collapsed (I had a large block under also but that crushed / split ).

On the MINIs I have also seen the plastic jacking blocks come off causing the MINI to fall of the jack causing damage to the MINIs .

On the jacking up with a trolley jack, if clearance is limited, have 2 short planks of wood (a couple of inches thick) handy to drive onto, giving extra clearance where ever you need it, but still use axle stands when using a hydraulic jack as they can also leak / collapse .

[REDHOT CHILLI COOPER]

Quote: Originally Posted by Randall Raines (original)

On the jacking up with a trolley jack, if clearance is limited, have 2 short planks of wood (a couple of inches thick) handy to drive onto, giving extra clearance where ever you need it, but still use axle stands when using a hydraulic jack as they can also leak / collapse .

Thats a good idea, like it.

[BRG/Blk Cooper S]

I find a good technique for having the rear wheels in the air is to use a trolley jack on the front jacking point until the rear comes up high enough to place an axle stand under the rear jacking point - I have some specifically cut hardwood blocks that fit snugly into the jacking point so that the axle stand is making direct contact with the hardwood block and then in turn directly with the chassis (I use these with the trolley jack also).

IMO where the trailing arms meet the chassis is too central and I feel this could actually lead to instability.

Seems to be ok on the front end though as the stance ends up wider.

As I mentioned previously however it would be nice if someone in the know chipped in or pointed to the definitive technique for the Mini in regards to axle stand positions.

Cheers, Geoff.

[DEye]

Sorry you had to have it happen to you, but thanks for the serious reminder !

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by drainaudio (original)

As I mentioned previously however it would be nice if someone in the know chipped in or pointed to the definitive technique for the Mini in regards to axle stand positions.

Cheers, Geoff.

This advice is just general and not specifically aimed at you "drainaudio" / "Geoff" as you say a lot is down to "common sense", but not always true .

There isn't a specific spot apart from the jacking points used for the scissor jack, but as pointed out you can only really use these if a trolley jack is used somewhere else . Don't use a scissor jack to lift & then support one side with a axle stand and then try to jack another point with the scissor jack to get the vehicle / MINI onto two stands as this can be a very dangerous practise and the scissor jacks can't take it (weight / stress etc... etc... they're only meant to lift one corner at a time enabling you to change a wheel in an emergency ).

The front end: Place the stands somewhere on the front sub-frame (unless you can get them on the actual jacking points).

The rear, it's already been mentioned, securely on the mounting where the rear trailing arm connects to the chassis (unless you can get them on the actual jacking points).

Don't place them (axle stands) on the trailing arms themselves or the front wash-bones / bottom-arms as I have seen some people do (as these move / compress the struts when weight is placed on them, ie, the vehicle / MINI is lowered, making them an unsafe option).

There are a couple of points on the actual chassis but unless you know exactly where these are, I would advise against doing this (same goes for jacking up with a trolley jack), as I have seen people place a stand / jack somewhere that looked strong / safe, jacked / lowered the vehicle / MINI and then worked away come to put wheel back on (or noticed the vehicle / MINI lowering slightly over time, sometimes thinking the jack is lowering & jacking up further ) and there's not enough clearance , basically the weight of the vehicle / MINI has settled around the point where the stand was in contact with the chassis pushing the chassis / floor up, denting it, sometimes badly ).

Also as mentioned once you've placed an axle stand / stands a chock should be used on one or more of the wheels still in contact with the ground to prevent the vehicle / MINI from moving and slipping off the stands .

I use the two short planks to gain some clearance if needed, then use a trolley jack on a secure point, placing the stands on the jacking points or vise-versa always keeping my eye on those blocks / chosen jacking point, making sure the jack or blocks don't start to move / slip.

Also remembering if you've used something for clearance make sure it's still there or put back when lowering the vehicle / MINI or your jack could get stuck or damage could be caused .

[Lolance]

Randall Raines, too helpful!!

I'm off to mess up my car

[REDHOT CHILLI COOPER]

Quote: Originally Posted by drainaudio (original)

I find a good technique for having the rear wheels in the air is to use a trolley jack on the front jacking point until the rear comes up high enough to place an axle stand under the rear jacking point - I have some specifically cut hardwood blocks that fit snugly into the jacking point so that the axle stand is making direct contact with the hardwood block and then in turn directly with the chassis (I use these with the trolley jack also).

Thats a good idea about jacking at the front and leaving the rear for the axle stands. I'll be using that route next time.

Think I'm also going to invest in a good trolley jack with a lower front end to get under the MINI.

Also thanks Randall Raines for the comprehensive reply.


By the way, been down to A&E this morning as foot is now swollen, bruised and painful to walk on and just thought it would put my mind at rest seeing as it's had 1/2 a ton of car on it .
Xray shows nothing broken but badly sprained. Think I was lucky really.

[Randall Raines]

Its always better to be safe than sorry .

In one of the local papers once, a chap decided to change the oil on his car while his other ½ went shopping, unfortunately she returned to find her husband crushed under the car, so the importance of the message can't be stressed enough.

When something does go wrong, it normally goes wrong too fast to be able to do anything about it and the eventual outcome (the extent of damage / injuries) is more down to luck than anything else.

[BRG/Blk Cooper S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Randall Raines (original)

This advice is just general and not specifically aimed at you "drainaudio" / "Geoff" as you say a lot is down to "common sense", but not always true .

There isn't a specific spot apart from the jacking points used for the scissor jack, but as pointed out you can only really use these if a trolley jack is used somewhere else . Don't use a scissor jack to lift & then support one side with a axle stand and then try to jack another point with the scissor jack to get the vehicle / MINI onto two stands as this can be a very dangerous practise and the scissor jacks can't take it (weight / stress etc... etc... they're only meant to lift one corner at a time enabling you to change a wheel in an emergency ).

The front end: Place the stands somewhere on the front sub-frame (unless you can get them on the actual jacking points).

The rear, it's already been mentioned, securely on the mounting where the rear trailing arm connects to the chassis (unless you can get them on the actual jacking points).

Don't place them (axle stands) on the trailing arms themselves or the front wash-bones / bottom-arms as I have seen some people do (as these move / compress the struts when weight is placed on them, ie, the vehicle / MINI is lowered, making them an unsafe option).

There are a couple of points on the actual chassis but unless you know exactly where these are, I would advise against doing this (same goes for jacking up with a trolley jack), as I have seen people place a stand / jack somewhere that looked strong / safe, jacked / lowered the vehicle / MINI and then worked away come to put wheel back on (or noticed the vehicle / MINI lowering slightly over time, sometimes thinking the jack is lowering & jacking up further ) and there's not enough clearance , basically the weight of the vehicle / MINI has settled around the point where the stand was in contact with the chassis pushing the chassis / floor up, denting it, sometimes badly ).

Also as mentioned once you've placed an axle stand / stands a chock should be used on one or more of the wheels still in contact with the ground to prevent the vehicle / MINI from moving and slipping off the stands .

I use the two short planks to gain some clearance if needed, then use a trolley jack on a secure point, placing the stands on the jacking points or vise-versa always keeping my eye on those blocks / chosen jacking point, making sure the jack or blocks don't start to move / slip.

Also remembering if you've used something for clearance make sure it's still there or put back when lowering the vehicle / MINI or your jack could get stuck or damage could be caused .

Cheers very much or the clarification - just a note, I would never, ever use a scissor jack to raise a car I was working on....
It is designed as a tool to be used in an emergency and nothing more - considering the S has runflats, I'm sure the only reason there's one in the boot is down to some sort of government legislation - it will never be used whilst I'm the owner of this car.

Considering we are talking about doing something that can result in injury or death here I would say the following - might be a bit OTT, but I'd rather not be dead..

You should have a good trolley jack (mine is a 2 ton Draper one £45 online) good axle stands (again 2 ton Draper £20 online) and wheel chocks (Halfords do some chunky angled ones for aprox £5).
If you don't have/can't afford this equipment you shouldn't be pulling the wheels off/working under your car in the first place.

I definitely agree with the front axle stand location, but personally don't like where the trailing arms join the chassis at the rear if you are taking off both rear wheels - I just feel it places the axle stands too close together and obviously a wider stance is preferred as it's more stable - fine for just removing one wheel though, trolley jack on the jacking point and axle stand on the chassis - double security..

Cheers, Geoff.

[Randall Raines]

Quote: Originally Posted by drainaudio (original)

I definitely agree with the front axle stand location, but personally don't like where the trailing arms join the chassis at the rear if you are taking off both rear wheels - I just feel it places the axle stands too close together and obviously a wider stance is preferred as it's more stable - fine for just removing one wheel though, trolley jack on the jacking point and axle stand on the chassis - double security..

Cheers, Geoff.

When I say trailing arm mounts, these are just rear of the actual rear jacking points, and you can't get any further apart, do you mean where the rear lower control arms fasten to the rear sub-frame ie, either side of the exhaust (in the centre) because I agree that that would be to close together & would / could be unstable, and some people use them as they're / that's one of the few places that you can actually place an axle stand, (we may be getting mixed up with rear trailing arms & rear control arms ).

I actually use 6 ton axle stands, a bit OTT , I do use them almost every day though .

I've actually seen people under cars with a scissor jack at max while working on a car .

[BRG/Blk Cooper S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Randall Raines (original)

When I say trailing arm mounts, these are just rear of the actual rear jacking points, and you can't get any further apart, do you mean where the rear lower control arms fasten to the rear sub-frame ie, either side of the exhaust (in the centre) because I agree that that would be to close together & would / could be unstable, and some people use them as they're / that's one of the few places that you can actually place an axle stand, (we may be getting mixed up with rear trailing arms & rear control arms ).

I actually use 6 ton axle stands, a bit OTT , I do use them almost every day though .

I've actually seen people under cars with a scissor jack at max while working on a car .

ahhhhhh totally agree, yes rear trailing arms good....rear lower control arms not so good

In regards to working under a car with a scissor jack at max..............all I can say is the rule of "natural selection" seems to always pop up when you least expect it

Cheers, Geoff.

[Lolance]

I don't have a clue what this rear trailing arms/lower control arms is all about!!

When it's nice and sunny outside, or even dry (a few months time then...), I'll start investigating this arm business. Gonna get the goodies from Halfrauds as drainaudio has specified!