I Want That Car!!

[W44NE G]

Have you tried the NFU?

I'm 25, on my 19th car and have never found such a good insurance company.

Worth a try at least... 0800 072 0168

[NeuroBeaker]

Some of this is starting to get a little combative, James. Try not to take advice as an affront to teenagers and an insult to you personally. Even when climbing behind the wheel for the last time in my life I'll still be open to suggestions and constructive criticism towards improving the way I drive. Someone might come up with something you hadn't previously considered, so try to think of it in that light.

To respond in a calm and friendly manner to your thoughts:

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

That's complete rubbish to say I wouldn't be able to control a car as well as someone who has been driving for years - I can drive better than my grandma and she's been driving for decades, probably longer than you!

An isolated and poor example. A population sample with n=1 from each group (Young vs. Old) is no basis for a sound comparison!

What is true is that the majority of young drivers will not be as cautious as the majority of more experienced drivers. Also, older populations are more keenly aware of their mortality than are teenagers. These differences play a role in whether or not the driver 'indulges' on that rare occasion, despite their instincts telling them otherwise.

It is not a question of physical ability to control a machine, it is a question of judgement. Why else do you think insurance premiums are higher for younger drivers?

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

Young people have faster reflexes and should the unthinkable happen I'm sure a young person can react quickly if not quicker than an older driver. I agree that everyone will control the vehicle differently under certain circumstances but I don't think you can say that an older driver will come off better than a younger person every time.

James, I am a scientist working in the field of clinical neurosciences and molecular brain imaging. Please believe me when I tell you that the benefits of having a younger brain (i.e. an increased rate of processing and quicker reaction) pale into insignificance when compared to the greater time you will have to react by virtue of advanced perception (i.e. more experience).

Anticipation is far more valuable than a quick reaction. You might gain a fraction of a second over a middle-aged driver in reaction times, but they are likely to gain a great bit more by taking pre-emptive action.

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

Good driving is about reading the road, being aware of other silly drivers around you. Thinking one step ahead and knowing what other people will do next or if someone else will make a mistake. Anticipate accidents before they happen.

I agree completely.

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

I think its possible for a young driver to be just as sensible and careful as any older driver and I am quite offended that so many older drivers put young drivers all under the same category - were not all stupid boy racers.

You are not being discriminated against for your age. You are being cautioned against overconfidence due to a relatively short driving life thus far.

You might be just as sensible and might try just as hard to be as careful, but the sum of experiences dictate that someone who has been driving longer would recognise a danger sooner based upon a greater likelihood of seeing that scenario on a previous journey.

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

Spend 10 minutes on YOUTUBE and see how many older drivers have ridiculous accidents. Middle - aged men in Ferraris and Lambos showing off, even people doing stupid things on public roads in MINIs and getting in accidents.

Do you think the videos on YouTube are representative of all the drivers in each age group? Or do you think only the most outrageous videos are posted and viewed?

It is a biased source, my friend. After all, who wants to watch an internet video of an 18 year old, a 45 year old, or an 80 year old driving calmly down the road without incident?

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

My boss at work is 45 years old, had the maximum NCB, hadn't had an accident in over 15 years and suddenly had a knock the other day and nobody says anything, a young person has a knock and they get scrutinised for being careless or reckless. Sometimes its luck of the dice...

Might I ask... what do you think is likely to happen to someone who advises a boss that his poor situational awareness might be the reason for his pride-and-joy now being in the shop for repairs? I suggest this is more down to his position rather than his age.

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

JUST BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF ACCIDENTS PEOPLE HEAR ABOUT INVOLVE YOUNG PEOPLE DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE ALL CRAP DRIVERS.

You're talking in absolutes here when there are very few absolutely in life. There are exemplary young drivers, and there are poor ones - just as there will be in an older sample group. However, there will be a smaller proportion of exemplary drivers amongst a younger populace than in an experienced populace - studies conducted by the government, insurance companies, road awareness/safety campaigns, independent motoring organisations, etc all confirm this.

Young drivers with limited experience constitute the greatest proportional danger on the road relative to their numbers. As much as you don't like it, that is irrefutable.

There must be something more experienced drivers are doing that younger ones are not (and what is that?!) - after all, despite their slowing reaction times they are involved in a smaller proportion of accidents relative to their numbers.

Concluding remarks:

Just try to drive knowing that you're not as experienced as you could be, and try to take constructive criticism on board. No matter how good a driver you are (or I am) there simply is no substitute for experience. The only thing that comes close are the little snippets of sagely advice you (or I) might gleam from someone who has more experience.

You might think yourself a better driver than your grandma, and perhaps in terms of smoother gear changes, accuracy of steering, and physically controlling the car - you are. But I'm willing to bet that if you took her out for a ride and discussed the environment around your car when you're driving, she just might surprise you (though I accept, this is again n=1 for each group! ).

And finally, I'd like to discuss motivations with you. I'm not motivated by a one-upmanship for driving experience here, and nor do I hope the weight of words will make anyone bow down to any sort of driving superiority. There are more experienced drivers than me, there are better controllers of the car out there than me, and no matter how good you are there will always be someone better. My motivation is to give you as much information as I possibly can so that you'll make faster progress than I am currently making towards becoming as safe a driver as possible.

This keeps you safe, your passengers safe, other motorists safe, pedestrians near you safe, and keeps another MINI in fine condition on the road.

All the best,
Andrew.

[##~James~##]

Andrew,

Thank you for your comments. Thats all it needed but some people are getting a bit personal. All im trying to say is us young drivers have it hard enough, most young drivers are idiots and do get into crashes and accidents etc ill admit that. The point is were not all the same and yes older drivers are more experienced and may handle situations better but this whole conversation has got nothing to do with why I raised this topic. I wanted peoples feedback about pending claims and that got answered in the first few replies. It doesnt require an attack of peoples comments to make young drivers feel dangerous.

I can see everyone has very strong ideas and views on this topic and im sure it is a debate that will go on for many years to come with young drivers after me.

All I can say is I hope other young drivers dont get too ripped off on insurance and, of course, be careful...

Thanks for everyones comments, I think this is case closed...

[kathyp]

you're doing the right thing by waiting, both in terms of cost and experience. the cooper s will be around for years - its something to look forward to.

[NeuroBeaker]

Quote: Originally Posted by ##~James~## (original)

I can see everyone has very strong ideas and views on this topic and I'm sure it is a debate that will go on for many years to come with inexperienced drivers after me.

You've hit the nail on the head there James, although I've taken the liberty of substituting one word for greater accuracy.

When people really feel they can save lives in discussions pertaining to safety, it's always going to be heated.

Hopefully see you in a more relaxed thread soon! Take care, bye for now.

All the best,
Andrew.

[ChloeG]

I haven't had time to read these threads and get the gist that being young is a problem. I do have a great insurance broker that I've used for 24 odd years.....and he's never failed me to get me the best deal. If you're interested, please drop me a line.

[Johnno]

hey mate, i am 19 and have a cooper s, try quinn direct for insurance, but if you really are struggling to get insurance then i wouldnt bother, it wasnt too bad for me was only 140quid more than my saxo vts so i thought i would go for it,

and to be honest a mini cooper is a nice enough car, you say you want something faster but you will soon grow out of that, i was like that when i passed my test, now i have a cooper s i hardly ever use the power, i just keep it in sixth, there is too many risks with having a fast car and nailing it on the road....

if you just want speed buy a track car and go on track!

[xxxemma6xxx]

try elephant, i was getting quoted £900-£3000 for my 2002 1.6i mini one....tryed elephant and i got it for just under 700...thats with no NCB and ith having a crash last year! worth a try!