General DiscussionUse this forum to discuss MINI topics which are not related to other forums. Posts may be moved from here to alternative forums by the moderators without notice
I was stopped on Sunday morning by a standard police proton car, the officer checked all my details, everything fine there.
Said the reason he has stopped me was because I cut across a large roundabout in excess of 30mph (he had no actual speed camera to verify this) and stopped the progress of a LGV coming on to the roundabout, due to the fact I arrived at the roundabout and proceeded to cross the roundabout exit straight ahead, said i wasn't Courteous to other road users.
So from here the officer says he is going to issue me with a Section 59 on the Mini and if I get stopped again I could have my car impounded. He was very short and abrupt with me and said the section 59 was like a driving ASBO.
Now the question i am asking is should the officer have given me a form/letter/ticket there and then or at least got me to sign and agree that I was in the wrong? its his word against mine.
Just thought I would ask the question.
Kris
P.S. Yes the LGV was on my left so I was on his right hand side, so he should give way to me.
Last edited by KrGP; Jul 15th, 2008 at 10:54 PM.
Reason: Missed details
i had one a few years back when i first passed my test, same sort of situation......
i didnt sign anything but when they call ur name in then it will come up section 59 i belive!
i thought this was out for younger drivers? instead of giving 6 points they give them a 59.
just remember, the section 59 is on you and the car, so no matter what car you drive in the next 12 months, if you are caught doing something dangerous, they could take that car...
also applies to your car, if seen driving by a different person they can still take it away.....
thats all the info i have on it mate. anyone correct me if im wrong!
i got one of these a few months back. However the copper was a complete novice and failed to issue me with anything in paper form indicating this.
Do a search on google. But its another load of crap the police dream up to penalise those they can for figures. If you wanna break the law, give up using the car, become a rapist or burglar, there useless at catching them.
In fact now i look back, all the thick kids i went to school with are now coppers, i think that says something
"Said the reason he has stopped me was because I cut across a large roundabout in excess of 30mph (he had no actual speed camera to verify this) and stopped the progress of a LGV coming on to the roundabout, due to the fact I arrived at the roundabout and proceeded to cross the roundabout exit straight ahead, said i wasn't Courteous to other road users."
Was it in a 30 mph zone? If so, I wouldn't grumble too much.
As a point of fact...and I am not saying that you failed to abide by the law in any case.........but.....
The broken white line markings present at each of the entrances onto the roundabout carriageway direct road users approaching a roundabout to give way at or immediately beyond the line to vehicular traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout.
In layman's terms this means that you give way, the majority of the time, to traffic on the right because that is where the traffic is coming from in a clockwise rotation with vehicles driving on the left. However, the same give way does apply to vehicles that are already circulating on the roundabout in front of you....may be slower or longer vehicles that have joined momentarily in advance of you from the next exit/entance around the roundabout.............hope that makes some sense...it is easier in picture form!!!!! In this situation, many people quite wrongly feel that the slower/larger vehicle has failed to give way to them, whereas, so long as that vehicle entered the roundabout carriageway prior to you, then you must give way to them, not vice versa.
bit confused from the way you wrote the post, might be me though
where you on the roundabout and the lgv entering onto it? in which case you are in the right, also I pretty sure that a visual assessment of speed wouldn't stand up to close scrutiny, it would need to backed by another witness or speed detection equipmen that has been correctly calibrated
It all rather sounds like the Policeman thought that he *might* have enough for a "without due consideration for other road users" charge (careless driving, section 3 RTA), but not enough to actually charge you.
OK, I've had to go and look up section 59, because it wasn't what I thought it was. What *I* thought it was (and I'm an ASBO specialist) was a way for the Police to deal with nuisances, like abandoned cars, "cruises" and burn-outs on the local sink estate.
Ah - I see. What was designed as a provision to clamp down on cruises gives the Police the right to circumvent the presumption of innocence in the criminal courts and forget the charges, and just seize your car. Hmph - I *really* can't see that passing muster in the Divisional Court.
My opinion - the requirement under section 59 that your use of the vehicle "causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public" is absolute, and means that the Police have to demonstrate some wider anti-social behaviour aspect; they can't just issue notices willy-nilly for cutting someone up at a roundabout.
Now there's a school of thought which says "let sleeping dogs lie" - that the more fuss you create, the more likely they are to decide to start seizing/charging people with careless driving.
But if it were *my* car that had just been given a notice by some over-zealous copper who doesn't understand what the law actually means, and thinks that it's some way to take my car off me without bringing charges or allowing me to test the evidence, I'd be down the station in a flash, having a word with the duty inspector; if I felt generous, I'd be offering them some training on what the law actually means, and if not I'd be putting complaints in writing to the Chief Constable followed by a quick application for Judicial Review (which isn't quick, s very expensive, and would not go well for the Police if all they could say was that I might have inconvenienced a lorry driver).
Dont know how to reply to this post as its full of opinion and facts that arent strictly correct.
All that i will say is that theres always two sides to every story...........both of which will never appear on the same post on an internet site.
If the information in this post is both correct and factually accurate, iam surprised that a Section 59 order was given in these circumstances. There are other more appropriate ways to deal with this.
Is this the first time that you have been stopped - is there any history here that would 'force' the officer to deal with this this way?
As a police officer I find this comment pretty offensive. Clearly everyone of us are exactly is exactly the same and your experience at school is all the proof needed of this. And I take it you checked your local forces clear up rate for burglary and rape before you made that post.
To answer the question, there isn't a form given to the driver for a S59 notice, but you should have an encounter form stating the notice being issued as the means of disposal. If you haven't I doubt you'll get out of it, but then I also doubt that the officer will actually put the notice onto PNC.
Are you seriously suggesting that this PC ignored an on going assault/stabbing/serious crime in order to deal with something less important directly in front of him?? There is great kudos in making arrests of quality villains, especially in relation to current political "hot potatoes"....so I think that suggestion is, ummm, stoooopid
Quality advice!! Compound any routine check, or even minor warning situation, with a genuine false details statutory offence. Hardly Michael Mansfield QC are we??
The AutoGuide.com network consists of the largest network of enthusiast-owned enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
AutoGuide.com provides the latest car reviews, auto show coverage, new car prices, and automotive news. The AutoGuide network operates more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share opinions as a community.
Gone August '06
Arrrived November '08 
Troll alert ! 
