[KrGP]

Good evening,

Just thought I would ask people on this forum.

I was stopped on Sunday morning by a standard police proton car, the officer checked all my details, everything fine there.

Said the reason he has stopped me was because I cut across a large roundabout in excess of 30mph (he had no actual speed camera to verify this) and stopped the progress of a LGV coming on to the roundabout, due to the fact I arrived at the roundabout and proceeded to cross the roundabout exit straight ahead, said i wasn't Courteous to other road users.


So from here the officer says he is going to issue me with a Section 59 on the Mini and if I get stopped again I could have my car impounded. He was very short and abrupt with me and said the section 59 was like a driving ASBO.

Now the question i am asking is should the officer have given me a form/letter/ticket there and then or at least got me to sign and agree that I was in the wrong? its his word against mine.

Just thought I would ask the question.

Kris

P.S. Yes the LGV was on my left so I was on his right hand side, so he should give way to me.

[Johnno]

i had one a few years back when i first passed my test, same sort of situation......

i didnt sign anything but when they call ur name in then it will come up section 59 i belive!
i thought this was out for younger drivers? instead of giving 6 points they give them a 59.


just remember, the section 59 is on you and the car, so no matter what car you drive in the next 12 months, if you are caught doing something dangerous, they could take that car...
also applies to your car, if seen driving by a different person they can still take it away.....


thats all the info i have on it mate. anyone correct me if im wrong!



Johnno.

[Ant FR]

i got one of these a few months back. However the copper was a complete novice and failed to issue me with anything in paper form indicating this.


Do a search on google. But its another load of crap the police dream up to penalise those they can for figures. If you wanna break the law, give up using the car, become a rapist or burglar, there useless at catching them.

In fact now i look back, all the thick kids i went to school with are now coppers, i think that says something

[adam_Randell]

police seem to be giving out section 59s like no body's business! i know alot of people who have had them issued to them.

[Paul]

"Said the reason he has stopped me was because I cut across a large roundabout in excess of 30mph (he had no actual speed camera to verify this) and stopped the progress of a LGV coming on to the roundabout, due to the fact I arrived at the roundabout and proceeded to cross the roundabout exit straight ahead, said i wasn't Courteous to other road users."

Was it in a 30 mph zone? If so, I wouldn't grumble too much.

[ItsNumptyBoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by KrGP (original)

P.S. Yes the LGV was on my left so I was on his right hand side, so he should give way to me.

As a point of fact...and I am not saying that you failed to abide by the law in any case.........but.....

The broken white line markings present at each of the entrances onto the roundabout carriageway direct road users approaching a roundabout to give way at or immediately beyond the line to vehicular traffic circulating on the carriageway of the roundabout.

In layman's terms this means that you give way, the majority of the time, to traffic on the right because that is where the traffic is coming from in a clockwise rotation with vehicles driving on the left. However, the same give way does apply to vehicles that are already circulating on the roundabout in front of you....may be slower or longer vehicles that have joined momentarily in advance of you from the next exit/entance around the roundabout.............hope that makes some sense...it is easier in picture form!!!!! In this situation, many people quite wrongly feel that the slower/larger vehicle has failed to give way to them, whereas, so long as that vehicle entered the roundabout carriageway prior to you, then you must give way to them, not vice versa.

[MarkW]

bit confused from the way you wrote the post, might be me though

where you on the roundabout and the lgv entering onto it? in which case you are in the right, also I pretty sure that a visual assessment of speed wouldn't stand up to close scrutiny, it would need to backed by another witness or speed detection equipmen that has been correctly calibrated

[ViscountCharles]

It all rather sounds like the Policeman thought that he *might* have enough for a "without due consideration for other road users" charge (careless driving, section 3 RTA), but not enough to actually charge you.

OK, I've had to go and look up section 59, because it wasn't what I thought it was. What *I* thought it was (and I'm an ASBO specialist) was a way for the Police to deal with nuisances, like abandoned cars, "cruises" and burn-outs on the local sink estate.

Quote:

Section 59 Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which—
(a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).

(3) Those powers are—
(a) power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b) power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c) power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d) power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).

Ah - I see. What was designed as a provision to clamp down on cruises gives the Police the right to circumvent the presumption of innocence in the criminal courts and forget the charges, and just seize your car. Hmph - I *really* can't see that passing muster in the Divisional Court.

My opinion - the requirement under section 59 that your use of the vehicle "causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public" is absolute, and means that the Police have to demonstrate some wider anti-social behaviour aspect; they can't just issue notices willy-nilly for cutting someone up at a roundabout.

Now there's a school of thought which says "let sleeping dogs lie" - that the more fuss you create, the more likely they are to decide to start seizing/charging people with careless driving.

But if it were *my* car that had just been given a notice by some over-zealous copper who doesn't understand what the law actually means, and thinks that it's some way to take my car off me without bringing charges or allowing me to test the evidence, I'd be down the station in a flash, having a word with the duty inspector; if I felt generous, I'd be offering them some training on what the law actually means, and if not I'd be putting complaints in writing to the Chief Constable followed by a quick application for Judicial Review (which isn't quick, s very expensive, and would not go well for the Police if all they could say was that I might have inconvenienced a lorry driver).

[Tonyrec]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

i got one of these a few months back. However the copper was a complete novice and failed to issue me with anything in paper form indicating this.


Do a search on google. But its another load of crap the police dream up to penalise those they can for figures. If you wanna break the law, give up using the car, become a rapist or burglar, there useless at catching them.

In fact now i look back, all the thick kids i went to school with are now coppers, i think that says something

Dont know how to reply to this post as its full of opinion and facts that arent strictly correct.
All that i will say is that theres always two sides to every story...........both of which will never appear on the same post on an internet site.

[Tonyrec]

Quote: Originally Posted by KrGP (original)

Good evening,

Just thought I would ask people on this forum.

I was stopped on Sunday morning by a standard police proton car, the officer checked all my details, everything fine there.

Said the reason he has stopped me was because I cut across a large roundabout in excess of 30mph (he had no actual speed camera to verify this) and stopped the progress of a LGV coming on to the roundabout, due to the fact I arrived at the roundabout and proceeded to cross the roundabout exit straight ahead, said i wasn't Courteous to other road users.


So from here the officer says he is going to issue me with a Section 59 on the Mini and if I get stopped again I could have my car impounded. He was very short and abrupt with me and said the section 59 was like a driving ASBO.

Now the question i am asking is should the officer have given me a form/letter/ticket there and then or at least got me to sign and agree that I was in the wrong? its his word against mine.

Just thought I would ask the question.

Kris

P.S. Yes the LGV was on my left so I was on his right hand side, so he should give way to me.

If the information in this post is both correct and factually accurate, iam surprised that a Section 59 order was given in these circumstances. There are other more appropriate ways to deal with this.
Is this the first time that you have been stopped - is there any history here that would 'force' the officer to deal with this this way?

[*Vikki*]

Quote: Originally Posted by KrGP (original)

Good evening,

Just thought I would ask people on this forum.

I was stopped on Sunday morning by a standard police proton car, the officer checked all my details, everything fine there.

Said the reason he has stopped me was because I cut across a large roundabout in excess of 30mph (he had no actual speed camera to verify this) and stopped the progress of a LGV coming on to the roundabout, due to the fact I arrived at the roundabout and proceeded to cross the roundabout exit straight ahead, said i wasn't Courteous to other road users.


So from here the officer says he is going to issue me with a Section 59 on the Mini and if I get stopped again I could have my car impounded. He was very short and abrupt with me and said the section 59 was like a driving ASBO.

Now the question i am asking is should the officer have given me a form/letter/ticket there and then or at least got me to sign and agree that I was in the wrong? its his word against mine.

Just thought I would ask the question.

Kris

P.S. Yes the LGV was on my left so I was on his right hand side, so he should give way to me.

Try pepipoo for this, great website and they will give you good advice

[richhamer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

i got one of these a few months back. However the copper was a complete novice and failed to issue me with anything in paper form indicating this.


Do a search on google. But its another load of crap the police dream up to penalise those they can for figures. If you wanna break the law, give up using the car, become a rapist or burglar, there useless at catching them.

In fact now i look back, all the thick kids i went to school with are now coppers, i think that says something

As a police officer I find this comment pretty offensive. Clearly everyone of us are exactly is exactly the same and your experience at school is all the proof needed of this. And I take it you checked your local forces clear up rate for burglary and rape before you made that post.

To answer the question, there isn't a form given to the driver for a S59 notice, but you should have an encounter form stating the notice being issued as the means of disposal. If you haven't I doubt you'll get out of it, but then I also doubt that the officer will actually put the notice onto PNC.

[ItsNumptyBoy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyrec (original)

Dont know how to reply to this post as its full of opinion and facts that arent strictly correct.
All that i will say is that theres always two sides to every story...........both of which will never appear on the same post on an internet site.

Very True.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonyrec (original)

If the information in this post is both correct and factually accurate, iam surprised that a Section 59 order was given in these circumstances. There are other more appropriate ways to deal with this.
Is this the first time that you have been stopped - is there any history here that would 'force' the officer to deal with this this way?

Valid opinion and question also.

Quote: Originally Posted by as400

How petty, and in the mean time the stabbings continue...

Are you seriously suggesting that this PC ignored an on going assault/stabbing/serious crime in order to deal with something less important directly in front of him?? There is great kudos in making arrests of quality villains, especially in relation to current political "hot potatoes"....so I think that suggestion is, ummm, stoooopid

Quote: Originally Posted by as400

Personally I never have my car registered at my home address and always give false details.

Quality advice!! Compound any routine check, or even minor warning situation, with a genuine false details statutory offence. Hardly Michael Mansfield QC are we??

[Tonyrec]

Quote: Originally Posted by as400 (original)

How petty, and in the mean time the stabbings continue...

Personally I never have my car registered at my home address and always give false details.

Remember to be a policeman you dont need any qualifications, its not difficult to confuse them, bless.

Troll alert !

[MINI Poser]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

In fact now i look back, all the thick kids i went to school with are now coppers, i think that says something

And since you left Primary School, don't you think they might have grown up and become wise? Hint

And as400....You give false details to an officer, say when they are writing out a ticket...Then that will REALLY screw up you day!

Can't beat the smell of disinfectant in the morning!

[Ant FR]

Quote: Originally Posted by MINI Poser (original)

And since you left Primary School, don't you think they might have grown up and become wise? Hint

And as400....You give false details to an officer, say when they are writing out a ticket...Then that will REALLY screw up you day!

Can't beat the smell of disinfectant in the morning!

I'm talking about people from the 6th form and Uni. And yes they are people i am still in contact with.

[simeds]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

I'm talking about people from the 6th form and Uni. And yes they are people i am still in contact with.

in which case they are in the top 2-5% of the population inteliigence wise,

ah ha !

[Ant FR]

Quote: Originally Posted by richhamer (original)

As a police officer I find this comment pretty offensive. Clearly everyone of us are exactly is exactly the same and your experience at school is all the proof needed of this. And I take it you checked your local forces clear up rate for burglary and rape before you made that post.

To answer the question, there isn't a form given to the driver for a S59 notice, but you should have an encounter form stating the notice being issued as the means of disposal. If you haven't I doubt you'll get out of it, but then I also doubt that the officer will actually put the notice onto PNC.

What part do you find so offensive in particular? Just read your first paragraph again and then you will see the irony of your statement. It only backs up my supposedly offensive comment further.

As for burglary in my area, the rate of succesful prosecutions has fallen by 15% in the last year. Reported crime may have fallen but as most people will tell you its due to peoples low confidence in the police ensuring that a lot more crimes are unreported. The police service as a whole needs a radical review. As if it carries on the way it is the public's respect for the police will decline even further. There already a joke as it is.

[super c00per]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ant FR (original)

What part do you find so offensive in particular? Just read your first paragraph again and then you will see the irony of your statement. It only backs up my supposedly offensive comment further.

As for burglary in my area, the rate of succesful prosecutions has fallen by 15% in the last year. Reported crime may have fallen but as most people will tell you its due to peoples low confidence in the police ensuring that a lot more crimes are unreported. The police service as a whole needs a radical review. As if it carries on the way it is the public's respect for the police will decline even further. There already a joke as it is.

Totally agree with you Ant!!! Well said!!

[MINI Poser]

Prosectuions are dealt with by the CPS.
We are "Investigatiors", not "Prosecuters"

Anyway. This topic is going a wee bit off track, so lets try and get it back to Section 59 Warnings.

Oh and I had a thought after reading this.

as400...If you give false details to the Police, and the insurance details don't match to the name you have given, well....thats an easy Section 165 and goodbye car!