Economic Slowdown hits MINI Production!

[*Vikki*]

I wonder if there will be any factory tours going on? Could be interesting!

[SoggyCornFlakes]

Quote: Originally Posted by Snowie (original)

It will also be interesting to see how many of the car companies will come out of recession and into better times - how will they be able to manage the upturn when so many skills and skilled staff have been lost from the overall workforce.

Many companies, including automotive, are moving to a reduced hours or "forced" holiday so that the workers can 1) keep their jobs albeit at a reduced rate of pay, the alternative is £60.50 a week jobseekers allowance! 2) retain as much of the skilled workforce as possible to ensure they can rise again when the recession bubble bursts ......

And while it may seem harsh for the contract workers (who as we have previously indicated in here often earn a higher hourly wage and have greater working flexiblity) the up shot is that the employed core workforce is being protected by these actions, minimise expenditure, manufacturing only what is actually needed, and retaining skills wherever possible.

Banking sector aside , I've been quite impressed the way businesses in general have tackled the recession to date.

[BRG/Blk Cooper S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Paul (original)

MINI is seen as a "British" brand and company, so close to "heart" and home, good for public reaction and outcry. Also, it's owned by a German company, so good for stoking the old feelings there, plus people are still bitter and unhappy with the way the whole BMW?/Rover thing panned out, so historical annoyance there.....

Basically, it's very bad news, but it's good for the news agenda and can be spun and respun many ways.

stoking the old feelings.........WWII was a very grim time indeed but how a generation who had nothing to with it can hold a grudge is perplexing to say the least - especially considering we're supposed to be "evolving" .
Then again we still get so much brilliant comedy both English and German based on that period of history so I guess you can't have one without the other..

BMW/Rover - BMW had a pretty close call with that sinking ship, it's fortunate the MINI was such a success or they would still be licking their wounds.

Rover was destined for the scrap-heap - you only have to get in one of the late models to see that - it's similar in many ways to the problems the US car manufacturers are facing IMO.

For years they've made sub-standard pieces of junk - BMW, MB, VW etc have grown and been a global success, so prices of what were "exclusive" premium cars have gotten to the point where most can afford the marque - the MB 190E was a good example of this........and you still see plenty of great ones around....I had one, 12 years old, was like an almost new car and built like a tank..

When I was a teen in the late 80's if your dad drove one of the above brands you were "rich" now you just like "quality".

It's a shame that the likes of Rover, GM, Ford etc can't really seem to step up to the plate and compete anymore - that's business however, and if people wanted to buy their products they wouldn't be in the trouble they're in......

[Simon Syddall]

This is very bad news, first and foremost for those who have lost their jobs. I ahve been there and done that and, unless you have, you cannot begin to imagine just what that is like.

As for the minority, who did damage, one hopes their details are already on circulation and they will not get jobs in the UK, before they retire.

One cannot take issue with the principle of making sure the business survives. However, zero hour temporary contracts and agency workers is one way around the proper consultation process for finishing so many.

When I toured the Hamms Hall engine plant, in 2004, they made much of the "family" there, loyalty etc breeding quality. If BMW/MINI have gone down an agency route, to cut cost, on premium price products, that is shabby and reprehensible and little wonder things like seat belt and air bag warning lights go off and all the other quality issues appearing on this site, are now the rule rather than exception. Loyalty is a two-way street.

As to the current economic problems, they are fair and square down to greedy high management in banking, with a feckless, intellectually barren government, asleep on the job.

The problem is now, nobody will lend and with the proliferation of the tick box skirt dogs to the banks - Experian, Equifax et al, nobody can actually get credit, to buy a new car if they wanted to. So, it goes around the loop.

Lack of demand panics the manufacturers into discounting, just to shift stock. That hits residuals - fortunately apparently still strong on MINI, which puts people into negative equity. They hand back the keys, rather than refinance the baloon, don't have the deposit to go into the next one and can't get the finance on the next one. It goes on. "Clever"(allegedly) people say don't buy a car on credit - IMO, putting net income into a wasting asset is crazy.

My own view is that a realistic PCP type deal keeps everyone protected and more need to be sold.

We'll see, next time I visit my dealer...................

[wiggis]

Could have been worse. Rather than the MINI 850, it could have been the MINI 1000 or even the MINI 1275

Gallows humour is the best tonic I find.

Donning flame proof suit.

[Gravity]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

This is an incredibly hard time for the agency workers.

Out of 850 workers in any workforce I would expect some violent and verbally abusive behaviour if only given notice of one hour. I would imagine it was only a very select few, and the entire workforce shouldn't be tarnished as a result.

With the number of people leaving, there won't be alternative employment for them all - many will be left unemployed. However, I don't think anyone in the workforce can be surprised either - sadly a lack of orders will result in factory slowdown. BMW cannot be expected to continue employing agency workers if the work isn't there. The issue here seems to be the way it was announced.

Employment legislation now ensures you have redundancy rights if you're employed for more than two years even on a fixed term contract, but I'm guessing that unfortunately this doesn't apply to agency workers.

As an employer you should have at least a moral duty to care for your workforce and as such more notice could have been given - how many of these 850 have made financial commitments over the last few weeks?

The whole point of being an agency worker is that you know your job is not permanent. Having spent a few years as a contractor myself, if you are working on a fixed term contract, and you assume that the work will continue past the end of the contract, that's your problem, not your employers. Working on contract often means a higher rate than a permanent employee, and the possibility of smaller tax burdens if you manage it cleverly, to which the downside is that your job is not assured.

Really makes me angry to see agency workers complaining about being treated as agency workers!

[iain cooper]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gravity (original)

The whole point of being an agency worker is that you know your job is not permanent. Having spent a few years as a contractor myself, if you are working on a fixed term contract, and you assume that the work will continue past the end of the contract, that's your problem, not your employers. Working on contract often means a higher rate than a permanent employee, and the possibility of smaller tax burdens if you manage it cleverly, to which the downside is that your job is not assured.

Really makes me angry to see agency workers complaining about being treated as agency workers!

well said Gravity......................they are employed, and still employed by the agency..........not BMW !!

[hoojkel]

Agree with Gravity here. I've been a contrator for a number of years and basically if the employer ie MINI in this case doesn't require you anymore then they can let you go but it all depends on the contract you signed and notice period and I think that's why the MINI employees are so angry. Either they didn't know they could be paid off without notice (agency messed up) or MINI are in breach by not letting them work their notice. But, going by whats happened I would say they had no notice period set out in their contract?? Unions wouldn't be able to do Jack but tell them the bad news and bear the brunt of their anger.

[Lawrothegreat]

Quote: Originally Posted by Gravity (original)

The whole point of being an agency worker is that you know your job is not permanent. Having spent a few years as a contractor myself, if you are working on a fixed term contract, and you assume that the work will continue past the end of the contract, that's your problem, not your employers. Working on contract often means a higher rate than a permanent employee, and the possibility of smaller tax burdens if you manage it cleverly, to which the downside is that your job is not assured.

Really makes me angry to see agency workers complaining about being treated as agency workers!

The whole point of being an agency worker is to be employed, and not be unemployed.

I agree that agency workers should be fully aware that they're not permanent. And I understand the agencies were their employers, not BMW/MINI.

I can't speak for MINI Cowley, but don't assume agency workers or those on fixed term contracts are always on a higher rate of pay. Quite often salaries and wages can be the same with less benefits, and I am talking from several years experience.

Thankfully employment legislation has improved in this country, but to say to you're angry to see agency workers complaining about being treated as agency workers is a view I hope is not shared by many. Some of those guys have worked for five years, during which time if they haven't taken sick leave I can understand why they believe they have strengthened a psychological contract with their indirect employer BMW and therefore are ultimately upset with their notice.

Agency or not agency, all people deserve to be treated fairly and employers are allowed to communicate forthcoming changes above and beyond their legal responsibilities.

I also think it is wrong to automatically assume that agency workers are the cause of the sqeaks and rattles - strangely enough agency workers are the same people that are permanent employees. In addition manufacturing, a disclipline of engineering is a complex art where choice of materials and actual manufacturing processes are factors too.

Can I thank myself?!

[Gravity]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

The whole point of being an agency worker is to be employed, and not be unemployed.

But there is no guarantee that the employment is for any longer than the duration of a fixed term contract, and it is short sighted to believe that one will be renewed term after term.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

Thankfully employment legislation has improved in this country, but to say to you're angry to see agency workers complaining about being treated as agency workers is a view I hope is not shared by many. Some of those guys have worked for five years, during which time if they haven't taken sick leave I can understand why they believe they have strengthened a psychological contract with their indirect employer BMW and therefore are ultimately upset with their notice.

It's their choice not to take sick leave - when you're an agency worker, you have to keep in mind that you aren't a permanent employee and don't have the same rights. Believe me, when I was a contractor I was much the same, but I always kept in mind that I wasn't a full time employee with the same rights, and so couldn't have the same expectations. Upset is fair enough, but complaining on the news that they've been fired "without a payout" is unacceptable - agency staff are hired for the reason that they can be fired quickly, and they should understand this when they take a contracted position.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lawrothegreat (original)

Agency or not agency, all people deserve to be treated fairly and employers are allowed to communicate forthcoming changes above and beyond their legal responsibilities.

In addition manufacturing, a disclipline of engineering is a complex art where choice of materials and actual manufacturing processes are factors too.

"Fair" is a qualitative term and I believe that having your notice given to you in the manner set forth in your contract is perfectly "fair".

The complexity of the job has nothing to do with it - I work in the software industry which is also complex and all the contractors I know would not be particularly offended if their contracts were not renewed, or terminated, because that's a condition of their employment. The same should apply here.

[dalboyne]

Using non-permanent staff is how modern organisations manage peaks and troughs of their business activities.

I assume MINI have chosen to let go their agency staff within the terms of their contract (with the agency and not with the individuals?). Perhaps MINI kknew that some were liable to react badly, and that the last thing they needed on the production line would be a small number of disaffected workers who knew in advance that their time there was coming to an end. The apparent short-notice might appear brutal, but I suspcte we do not have all of the facts - only from one side.

Letting go the non-permanent staff is very sad, but is surely the necessary step to help protect the jobs of their permanent workforce? I can only hope that this is sufficient, and that the business is sustainable without further future measures

I found it interesting that a lot of the anger appeared to be addressed at the union reps, rather than at the employer (aside from the wanton vandalism to company property). The reports suggested that the unions knew this was coming for some time, in which case it's amazing that it was kept so quiet! There was a time when the unions would have been up in arms, and called everyone out for much less than this! So it does seem that for most people there is an acceptance of the reality of the current economic situation - you'd have to be pretty naive to be working in the car sector and not to feel that you will somehow be afftected!

Of course, it would also be helpful if anyone out there who is still buying cars would buy one made in the UK, as opposed to one shipped in from elsewhere!

I'll say no more on this topic - sorry I started it!!!!

[Carlos.]

Quote: Originally Posted by dalboyne (original)

The reports suggested that the unions knew this was coming for some time, in which case it's amazing that it was kept so quiet!

In fairness, the motor industry worldwide is in meltdown - anyone who didn't see this coming must have been living in a small, dark box, tucked quietly out of the way, for some time.

In other news.......people "stunned" that Pope lives in Rome, and bear defecates in forested area exclusive.

[iain cooper]

Quote: Originally Posted by dalboyne (original)

I'll say no more on this topic - sorry I started it!!!!

not at all Dalboyne..................very interesting to hear various views on the subject

[hoojkel]

Interesting to read that Germany has accepted the EU directive for temporary and agency workers which makes it harder for them to dismiss agency workers. The UK hasn't yet taken on this directive which would have protected these UK workers and probably won't in the current climate.

[Carlos.]

but the german workers don't make minis in oxford????