So... I'm an Idiot.

[TheRossness]

Howdy Mini crew. I'm new to you're "Small"world

So, I think I might be an idiot. That's a strange way to introduce one's self, but hear me out.

In February of 2010 I started my search for a new car. Basically, I wanted the fastest, most fun sports car I could find that had a large trunk and was affordable. I drove just about everything under the sun and in June of this year, I ended up getting a Subaru WRX STI Limited. Basically, It's a top of the line subaru WRX STI with all the bells and whistles. I forgot to take into account a few things. First and foremost should be the transmission and my health battling one another for ultimate supremacy. I was born with numerous foot, ankle and muscle problems and while I like to drive stick, the clutch in combination with my foot stretching, puts me in a ton of pain. (I've had various surgeries and nothing has helped) I should have gotten an auto tranny, but when I was looking for cars, I never considered one as I have more control and fun when driving stick.

When I bought the WRX, I could only afford it by the skin of my teeth. The way I drive it, I'm getting 12 MPG combined. I can't afford the gas . It is costing my $50 every day for gas and sometimes more when I take long drives. The insurance premium isn't fun either. So, while I like the drive of the car (It's extremely fast and has tenacious grip on everything) I can't afford the car and it's too painful to drive.

I realized about a week ago that I'm not going to be able to keep the car for as long as I had planned. That said, I owe about $12k on the car and need to find some way to pay it off quicker than I had planned in order to sell it.

~So, Why the heck am I posting this on a site dedicated to Mini's?

After realizing how stupid what I did was, I started thinking about cars I could afford that offered both sport, practicality and a better cost to own. Yesterday, I went to my local auto dealer strip and tried 2 cars. The first was a VW GTI. It had great seats and the DSG tranny was neat, but it left me wanting something that I couldn't put my finger upon. Next, I drove a Mini Clubman S and just about fell in love with it. It's nowhere near as fast as my Subaru, but It seemed more fun and the tiptronic gearbox seemed to deliver torque to the wheels better than what I was expecting.

So, now I'm stuck with a car I can't afford and want the Clubman S very badly. I won't be able to drive it as fast, but maybe that is a blessing in disguise that will save me from getting my license suspended from going at ludicrous speed in the STI.

I do have a few questions about the Mini and was hoping I could get some answers.

1- While the automatic transmission cancels out the JCW version of the car, apparently there is a costly JCW tuning kit available. Does the kit make that much of a difference?

2- Do you find the seats to be supportive enough to provide comfort and lumbar support on long trips? Is the car comfortable enough to take on long 4+ hour drives and road trips?

3- During extremely aggressive driving, what kind of MPG do you get?

4- Are there any reoccurring problems that mini's have? Are they reliable? I know someone who had an old TVR. His was built with British ingenuity and massive electrical problems. The mini doesn't have the british electrical problems of yore, does it?

5- Is anyone interested in buying a 2011 Subaru WRX STI limited with about 4000 miles on it? [Sorry, I had to ask ]

If I do find a way to pay off my Subaru, sell it, and get a mini, maybe I'll be less of an Idiot.

[Kev50027]

Welcome to MINI2!

First of all, stop kicking yourself, you're not an idiot. It would have impossible for you to know that the transmission on your new car would cause you so much pain after driving it every day.

Second of all, 12 MPG?? Seriously? You sure there isn't a hole in the gas tank or something?

I understand why you want a manual, I've always been a manual driver myself, and every car I've owned has had one. The BMW 135i is offered with a 7 speed SMG that would give you control, insane speed, great handling, and much better gas mileage than your current car. That said, the 135i is quite pricey compared to a Clubman. I test drove a GTI before getting my MCS, and couldn't stand it. As you said, the seats are nice, but the manual transmission had no feel whatsoever, the clutch felt like it didn't do anything, and had no feedback at all. The steering felt dull and the whole car just felt too pedestrian and boring for my taste.

1- I can't answer your question, but be sure if you get a Clubman to drive it stock for a while to see if it's quick enough for you. It's no slouch, and the popping of the exhaust when you let up off the throttle is pretty awesome.

2- Definitely, the sport seats in my MINI are excellent. They are manual seats (which saves weight) but they offer a lot of adjustments, and with the manual lumbar adjustment you can get the seat to fit you perfectly. If you're going to take the car on roadtrips, you might want to avoid the sport suspension, it will make highways feel like gravel roads. The standard suspension still gives you almost zero body roll in corners and lets you tear up on ramps and curvy country roads quickly, and run through a slalom faster than a 911.

3- In my Cooper S, I get 22MPG and up. During normal driving I get 33MPG. It would be very difficult to get less than 20MPG in a Cooper S. The Clubman gets slightly worse gas mileage since it weighs a few hundred pounds more, and the auto will take another 1 or 2 MPG away, but you will still get far better gas mileage than your current car, and still be having a blast.

4- If you're thinking of getting a 2012 model year, they just did a minor facelift and engine upgrade (adding 9 horsepower and getting slightly better gas mileage) in 2011, so it's hard to say what the reliability will be. MINI has ironed out just about every issue that previous model years had though, so things should be reliable. Even the torque steer is almost completely absent on 2011 and newer MINIs, which is remarkable for a powerful front wheel drive car. If you're buying used, older MINIs have quite a bit of torque steer, so just be aware of that. On my 2011 MCS I haven't experienced any electrical problems. One thing that did bug me was that when leaving the rear of the sunroof popped open in the summer to vent hot air, and the car locked, the alarm will go off because of wind or noise from the sunroof. The car doesn't like gravel roads at all, but that's to be expected with sport run flats. It gets dirty easily too, but my car is black, so it shows any and all dirt, and hatchbacks never stay clean long. Keep in mind that on a forum like this, people mostly discuss problems with their cars, so it paints a bleak picture of any car, no matter how reliable.

5- Try Craigslist. I sold my BMW Z3 and my BMW Z4 on there and got quite a bit more than I would have from a dealer, and got to meet the buyer and talk about the car with them. If that doesn't work, autotrader.com is always an option, though you have to pay for it.

Hope that helps, if you have any other questions feel free to ask and I'll answer them to the best of my ability.

[TheRossness]

The Subaru gets between 12 and 15 MPG. It's a high boost turbo and if I shifted it at 3000 rpm like a granny, maybe I could get better millage, but at that point in the rev band, the turbo would just be kicking in.

I shopped my WRX STI around today to a few subaru dealers as well as Carmax. The best offer I got was $33500 for my car. Considering I paid $36k for my car, I'm quite tempted to take the $33500 and run.

I considered the BMW I35i, but it's wayyyy too costly with the DCG. It will cost about $45k and I don't have that kind of cash to spend on a car. I also thought about getting an E46 M3 with the SMG gearbox, but I'm still going to get the same kind of gas milage, and insurance would be higher.

I'm also not expecting any car that I get to be too fast. My STI feels like a racecar. Accelerating from 70 to 120 gives me that butterflies in my stomach kind of feeling. When I do get a different car, I'm looking for fun, not speed. If I look for speed, I'm going to be disappointed no matter what.

Its weird- Before I got the Subaru, I had driven a Mini Cooper S w/ a stick and had crossed it off my list. Maybe I'm a bad stick driver, but the automatic transmission makes it feel like a different car and I actually like it more. I think the torque hits the engine differently. I always thought people who didn't drive sticks were lazy. I guess I'm going to be lazy now. At least it will make driving in traffic easier.

The list of cars I'm looking at is pretty small. It seems the hot hatch segment is limited to just a few models in the USA, especially if you ditch the manual gearboxes. There's the mini, the gti,- Ford is going to be coming out with the Focus ST sometime in 2012. Besides the lack of power, the old Focus SVT was a blast to drive

Anyway, I've been playing around with the Mini car builder on their site, and here's what I've come up with-

~ Clubman S in British Racing green/ Silver roof with the Hot Chocolate lounge interior, white leather accents, wood trim, heated seats and the armrest. (I'm going to do an aftermarket yellow racing stripe down the center of the car, over the hood, the roof and down the trunk)

Premium package, iPod /bluetooth connectivity, Sport Suspension, JCW Tuning kit*

All together, the Mini has an MSRP of $34985. If I order a new car from MINI in England, can I get any money off the MSRP?

*Also, there is the JCW tuning kit which I'm debating getting . I'd like the extra sport, but $2200 seems like an awful lot to pay for just 16 bhp. Does the kit make that much of a difference? If I skimp on the kit, I can either save the cash or re-invest it in the nav/ mini connected. What would you do?

[Kev50027]

Definitely avoid the E46 M3 with the SMG. That SMG was abysmal, it's only in the past few years that SMGs have gotten good enough to deal with every day. Also, the E46 M3 is a fun car, but it's really low on torque, and you have to thrash it to get much out of it. My brother had one for a while and I swear it feels like my Cooper S has more low RPM torque. We also had an M5 at the time, and it was simply better than the M3 in every way except weight.

That is a pretty good price for a brand new used car, but it would be worth doing a Kelly Blue Book evaluation just to see what they think you could get from a private party. If you really want to sell your car to a dealer, see what the local MINI dealership will give you for it, that way you may get a better deal on a new car.

It is tough to find a hot hatch in the US, hopefully Alfa's return to the US will bring something interesting, but car companies mostly ignore the US when it comes to hatchbacks. It's frustrating to see Ford selling Europeans little hatchbacks while all they sell here are F series pickups.

Your spec of the Clubman S sounds quite nice. You may want to look into the Convenience package as well, the comfort access system makes opening the doors much easier while you're carrying things like groceries. You just have to press the button on the door with the key in your pocket and it will unlock, rather than rummaging through your pocket for the key. Auto wipers and headlamps are a godsend, and since most people in the US drive SUVs, it's nice to have the auto dimming rear view mirror when their headlights are glaring straight into your car.

Make sure to drive a MINI with a sport suspension before ordering one to make sure you're okay with the harsher ride. I came from a BMW Z4 3.0 with runflats that had such a stiff suspension that even highways were painful to my derriere. The Cooper S sport suspension option is also quite stiff. Finally, the sport package adds on nicer wheels, the excellent Xenon headlamps, dynamic traction control (otherwise you only get dynamic stability control...it's rather confusing), and white turning signals which look sportier than the yellow. If you get the Xenon headlamps, you can also get black headlamp surrounds or adaptive light control, which turns the headlamps when you turn the wheel. Unfortunately you can't get both, but I really love the adaptive lights on my MCS.

As far as nav, I had navigation built into my Z4, and it was more trouble than it was worth. Back then, it was DVD based, so the more modern flash based systems might be more reliable. With my MINI, I ended up saving the money and getting a very nice Tom Tom Go 2505 with a 5" capacitive screen. That way if something goes wrong with it, it's at most a $200 fix rather than $1750 and a trip to the dealership.

Contrary to what some dealerships may tell you, you can always get money off the MSRP. Make sure to shop around though, I went to two different dealerships to see who could give me the best deal on a custom ordered Cooper S. One told me they couldn't give me any money off MSRP and that nobody else would either, the other gave me a few thousand off, but only after I told them I was asking other dealerships for their best deal. You can probably get a better deal from a car on the lot, but MINIs are meant to be customized.

I personally would skip the JCW tuning kit, if only because you can always get it later on and keep your warranty. The cost is also quite high for so little horsepower gain, and there are other ways to get that horsepower that would be less expensive. I haven't driven a car with the kit fitted though.

One final thing to keep in mind: MINI is going to be introducing new models within the next year, with new (3 cylinder) engines available and a different look. It will be the third generation of the MINI Cooper since BMW introduced them. I'm not sure how long it will take them to introduce new Clubmans, or what will happen to the Clubman in general, but I've heard rumors that the next Clubman will be based off of the Countryman. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, since the Countryman weighs even more. To learn more about what's in store for MINI, check out MotoringFile

[TheRossness]

I'm getting closer to ordering the MCCS. I've changed a few of the options and colors around. Right now, it's looking like I'll be getting a red car/ red roof/ silver rear parts. Beige interior with red accents and a checkerboard dashboard, heated seats and an armrest.

Options- Sunroof, sound system, Ipod integration, sport suspension, Stability control, xenon headlights, JCW tuning kit, Kayak rack and roof bars, chrome hood scoop, the mini tattoo yours glorious, checkered mirrors.

I drove a clubman with the nav and could barely read the speedometer, so the nav/ connected feature is out.

I'm still debating on two options- the sport suspension and the JCW kit. As for the suspension, besides comfort, is there a performance advantage with the sport suspension equipped?

Then there's the costly JCW tuning kit. I'm actually thinking of getting it as it will get me as close to the JCW as I can get w/ the auto transmission without losing my warranty.

If I order the car new, how much $$$ can I expect to get off the MSRP?

[solidsponge]

Id just like to say the seats in the minis are the best Ive sat in, lumbar support, I wish I could sit in one in the office, put it that way, also read a guy with sciatica was very pleased with his seats. I was very surprised.

Boot space wise (I know you didn't ask this exactly) with the seats down you can fit in a large mountain bike with front wheel off and passenger seat down. With both wheels off you can have passenger seat up.

Cheers
Roy

[Kev50027]

Regarding the nav and speedo issue, you know you can set it up to have a digital readout of the speed on the single color LCD inside the tachometer, right? I think most MINI drivers use the digital speedo, it's easier to glance at.

As far as the armrest, make sure you have sat in a car with it. When I tried it out, I found it peculiar, since it sort of blocks your access to the parking break. If you get an auto though, you probably won't use the parking break much, so that may not matter.

From what I've heard, the sport suspension is stiff enough that on lift-off you can get some oversteer, which is an advantage or a disadvantage, depending on whether it's on the track or a curvy road with guardrails. I've never gotten my Cooper S to lose traction though, and the only time the stability control light flashes is sometimes in the rain, so it has more than enough grip.

Someone who would know a lot about the sport suspension and the JCW tuning kit would be Gabe (or anyone else really) from MotoringFile. I'm not sure if they would respond to an email or not though, or even what their email is.. but they're MINI experts.

How much you get off the MSRP depends on many factors, like what time of the year you order, what part of the month, whether you're trading a car in, who you deal with, and whether you are getting things like an extended warranty or something that is nearly all profit for the dealership.

I've heard that dealerships make a 10% margin on new cars, though I'm not sure about that. With a price of over $30,000 you should expect to get at least $2,000 hopefully more like $3,000 off MSRP. MINIs are selling like crazy though, so you won't get as much off as you could on another brand. If you order your car towards the end of the month, they may be more willing to give you a deal to make a sale, since the sales people get a commission, usually on a monthly basis. By the end of the month, they're sometimes worried about meeting their quota, which means a better deal for you. You can always try to get them to throw things in for free too, like floor mats.