[johnxyz]

Is the 6sp Getrag MT significantly higher quality than the Rover 5sp MT unit that would warrant an upgrade purchase to the S?

I would prefer the base Cooper but the reliability of that transmission concerns me.

Thanks for your opinions / experiences. Apologies if this is a redundant query.

Regards, John

[Bilbo Baggins]

johnxyz,

It is much more than just a transmission that you get with the S. You are getting a much healthier engine with stronger internals.

The 6 spd is an extermely close ratio tranny. The Getrag has a slightly taller first gear than the first gear of the 5 spd., with sixth gear about the same when compared to the fifth gear of the 5 spd. Therefore you are dividing a slightly smaller overall range into 6 steps instead of 5 steps. It is nice to be driving and have a choice of two, three, or four gears to choose from for any given speed and driving situation.

When driving aggressively it is very easy to stay within the meaty part of the power band at all times, without having to rev the snot out of the engine. There are no long gaps between gears so you don't fall below the power band.

The gear throws are short and precise. It feels very solid. Especially when compared to an Audi A4 Quattro 5 spd. or a Subaru Impreza 5 spd. But, so does the Cooper 5 spd.

As far as reliability goes......Getrag is a very reputable company and makes a fine product. Getrag trannys are specified in some of the finest sprots cars and race cars.

The design of the tranny incorporates a second countershaft that adds complexity and possible additional things that can go wrong. However transmissions tend to be very reliable overall. Especially if operated correctly and not abused.

The internals of the engine that change in the S are the crank, connecting rods, and pistons. The S gets forged parts instead of cast in the Cooper. There is also some head work and better valves for the higher heat.

IMO, for the $3,000 the Cooper S is a steal.

[stryder]

Quote:

Originally posted by johnxyz
Is the 6sp Getrag MT significantly higher quality than the Rover 5sp MT unit that would warrant an upgrade purchase to the S?

I would prefer the base Cooper but the reliability of that transmission concerns me.

Thanks for your opinions / experiences. Apologies if this is a redundant query.

Regards, John

I don't think anyone knows the answer to your question really. If I recall, the Getrag was specially designed with its dual mass flywheel and such, so there's no reliability there. The 5Sp hasn't been around for long enough for anyone to tell otherwise, though people have been having it replaced for various reasons.

Getrag does have a nice reputation for quality though, but reputations aren't everything.

You do have your warranty, at least for a few years. After that, I'm not sure. The reasonably large extra expense, worse gas milage (which may or may not matter) and the different looks of the S should all be considered before you think. Besides on the flip side, supercharging an engine puts more wear on it, plus more parts so there's no reliability data to say all the beefing up MINI did will hold up and make the S have a better drivetrain.

I'm certain there's good reasons S's are amazingly popular in the US but a far less percentage elsewhere. Exactly what it is, I'm not sure. I suspect gas milage and price sensativity/market niche, not transmission choices.

[CUTiger3]

Quote:

Originally posted by Bilbo Baggins
johnxyz,

It is much more than just a transmission that you get with the S. You are getting a much healthier engine with stronger internals.

IMO, for the $3,000 the Cooper S is a steal.

Yep, my sentiments exactly

[BruceK]

I wish Sejanus would read this! Someone is buying a car based upon the choice of manual transmission (not the engine)!

Anyway, to the subject at hand: Don't discount the MINI's 5-speed transmission. It's proven design whereas the 6-speed is brand new (if that means anything). Other than the recall about the shifter cables becoming unattached, the 5-speed is the transmission fitted to the majority of the more than 100,000 MINIs already produced. There have been some reports about 5-speed transmission failures, but they are few and far between and fixed under warranty of course.

Having said all that, I'd go for the 6-speed in the S and the power to enjoy it!

[uua]

Reliabilty of the 6 speed is unknown. After a few hundred kilometres is has become very smooth and plaeasant to use. There doesn't appear to be anything wrong with the 5 speed either. The only question I have is why BMW would have got Getrag to develop the 6 speed. Just for its sporty close ratio feel? or did they think the5 speed couldn't handle the power?

I think you need to think about your driving style, traffic and terrain when deciding between the two models.

[Grinder]

Quote:

Originally posted by uua
The only question I have is why BMW would have got Getrag to develop the 6 speed. Just for its sporty close ratio feel? or did they think the5 speed couldn't handle the power?

The 5-speed tranny isn't rated to handle the 163 bhp of the S...

[minirossa]

Ohhhhh, Better watch out BruceK! Sejanus is sensitive about
his CVT!

Uh....anyway; regarding the Gertag 6 speed. I test-drove an S for the second time last week & was impressed with the Gertag. Shifts smoother than my 5 speed.

It is too early too address relibility but Gertag makes the
trannies in several BMW models & they seem to be fine.

[stryder]

Quote:

Originally posted by Grinder


The 5-speed tranny isn't rated to handle the 163 bhp of the S...

Actually, its probably the torque that's the problem. 155ft-lbs on a little gear is very difficult to transfer. Power doesn't affect transmissions all that much. Has anyone broken a screwdriver because they used it too quickly (power) vs prying or twisting it too much (torque)

No back to your regularly scheduled transmission discussion....

[BruceK]

Quote:

Originally posted by minirossa
Ohhhhh, Better watch out BruceK! Sejanus is sensitive about his CVT! ...

Oh, I know it. He and I have had some healthy debates about automatics and manuals. We've agreed to disagree.
_____

One of the things I really like about the 6-speed in the Cooper S is the unusually long gearing it has. It seems to make very good use of the engine's broad (across the rev range) torque characteristics (and it's fun, too )

[HarryHBMCC]

See this new thread: http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=19207

I have no idea if that is the right tranny or not but if it only handles 155lb-ft of torque, what will Works upgrades do to it?

The S has a stronger tranny and a reinforced engine but that's because it has a harder working FI engine and more torque coming out the other end. I suspect that MINI/BMW is confident in the longevity of both cars similarly. They both have the same warranty and it would be expensive to MINI/BMW if they don't last the 4 years/80000km (50000miles).

Harry