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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Nov 6th, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Forcey is correct, speakers are the weak link in sound reproduction. That's not to say an AM radio is going to sound good on some £10,000 speakers though But they are the thing you should spend most of your money on.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Nov 7th, 2012, 09:54 AM
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Ok, let's try and clarify this.
If you were to connect a £100 headunit to a £100 amp and and run these
through a £1000 worth of speakers the limiting factor (in terms of sound quality) would be the headunit and amplifier.
What information the headunit fails to pick up from the source (CD for example) cannot be sent to the amplifier for it to amplify!
Then, if the £100 amplifier fails to amplify this (already) poor signal accurately,
plus it adds it's own distortion and colouration to that already poor signal
the (great) speakers have a low quality, distorted signal to reproduce
to the listener!
There is a misconception that high volume from speaker = sound quality.
This just isn't the case.
Any audio system is only as good as it's weakest link.

Last edited by spikeyadrian; Nov 7th, 2012 at 01:41 PM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Nov 7th, 2012, 03:21 PM
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thats what i said its no good having a good head unit with rubbish speakers or rubbish head unit with good speakers. also verybodys hearing and music is different what sounds good to one person might sound rubbish to others. all i am saying is what ever stereo you have in your car standard or after market you afto match the speakers to that head unit,
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Nov 9th, 2012, 08:19 PM
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Sorry for sounding like a **** in my post previous posts, I'd had a few sherbets when I answered you Adrian. Apologies.

The fact is though, that these days, most source equipment is so much of alike seeing that everything is digital. We are talking about the BMW head unit - which technically isn't that much different to what else is on the market.

If you seriously think that you can make a discernable difference between various sources/ headunits played through the same speakers on a blind test, then you only have yourself to convince.

With a power amp running between source and speaker, you may obviously hear an increase in perceived volume, though you may mistaken this as an increase in sound quality.

The truth is, your ears (and brain) will more likely determine a difference in sound quality when testing the same source with different speakers.

Adrian, you mentioned that a headunit may not pick up information from a CD (source) as it may be a 'poor signal'. There is no such thing as a 'poor signal' from a digital source!

The headunit will either receive the information as 0s or 1s IDENTICALLY as a digital signal regardless of the digital source you use. If it fails to receive any information, then you won't hear anything. Period!

The only thing that may make a difference is the quality of DACs used in either the source or amp sections in the chain.

Chances are though, in a car where the acoustics aren't optimum, you wouldn't be able to hear the differences.

Sorry to those disbelievers, but even a 'rubbish' headunit will sound better through upgraded speakers, than a premium headunit/Power amp combo through the stock speakers.

Test it yourself if you don't believe.

Last edited by Forcey; Nov 9th, 2012 at 09:45 PM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Nov 9th, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Quote: Originally Posted by fleck (original)
Forcey is correct, speakers are the weak link in sound reproduction. That's not to say an AM radio is going to sound good on some £10,000 speakers though But they are the thing you should spend most of your money on.

Fleck you're correct. If anything, my (home) speakers show up all the flaws in low bitrate/poorly recorded material more than most cheaper speakers can even reproduce!
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Nov 10th, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Forcey, I don't have to convince myself that i can hear the difference
between various source/headunits.....i can!
I worked in the specialist hifi industry for 10 years before i went
into teaching, i worked for a company called Superfi.

I have a Pionner DEH-P88RSll fitted to my Mini and i could hear the difference between this and the standard BMW unit that was originally fitted!

As for there not being a poor quality signal from a digital source, this is incorrect too.
Why on earth do you think that when What Hi Fi have done reviews
on CD players in the past (digital signal), some have got a 2-3 star review for sound quality and others have got 5 stars??
Are you saying that the reviewer has imagined the difference in sound quality?

Why would Pioneer make a £1500 Reference head unit it their base £100
model sounded as good?!

The components of a headunit/CD player, i'e. Audio grade capacitors, 24 bit DAC's, copper chassis, OFC powes supply, Digital master clocks etc all make a difference to the sound quality of that unit. Cheaper Units will not contain these 'high end' components.

My Car audio system consists of: Pioneer DEH-P88RSll head unit, Pioneer 6 disc CD changer, 3 MTX 2 channel amps, MQ Quart 17cm component speakers with competition crossovers in the front, Infinity Kappa 6x9's in the rear, MB Quart 12'' sealed sub in the boot.

This is a great sounding system, however, I'll be upgrading again soon as i enjoy the challenge of making my system sound as good as possible!

Last edited by spikeyadrian; Nov 10th, 2012 at 02:00 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Nov 10th, 2012, 07:23 PM
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Hey Adrian maybe we've chatted in the past then?

Seeing as you worked in Superfi, you may have heard of me too - over on AVForums and AVSForums ? Though seeing as you've been out of the loop for a while, maybe you haven't ?

I can't post URLs yet but google "My Little Effort The Force"

I'm known as THE_FORCE on both sides of the pond.

As for citing WhatHifi - that's got to be a joke right ?

Most of the decent peeps on both side of the pond know that WhatHifi are completely irrelevant and ******** in their reviews! They support Russ Andrews' claim that PowerKords make a difference in audio quality. Ha Ha fekkin Ha !!!

But hey Adrian, seeing as you worked at Superfi, we must have a mutual friendship base? - and if you want to take your statements over to the dedicated forums at AVF I'd be more than happy.

As you can see from my thread over on AVF(and AVS), I spent over £20k on speakers and subs alone for my main system - just incase you needed some
argument against your willy waving on your car system.

I still spent a shitload on my source components,but not as much as I could have, because I knew the money would be better invested in the speakers.

Once again, you can convince yourself all you like, but don't be yet another misinformer like Andrew Everard et al over at WhatHifi.

They get PAID to spout ***** - do you ?!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Nov 10th, 2012, 09:19 PM
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Bit of a slanging match going on here. Been into hi-Fi for 40 years. Rubbish in = rubbish out. The source IS most important (& if you spent £20k on kit & havn't realises this then more fool you). A good input, say Apple lossless through Mini standard speakers will sound much better than a poor CD player through all the speakers and subs you can afford. Of course the BIG SPEAKERS/SUB are more impressive to look at but use your ears. People who load there cars (or houses) with bass are clearly into noise. Fine, but not Hi Fi. Quality is in the source.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Nov 11th, 2012, 01:18 AM
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Lol

Cracking post andy.

You really sound like you know what you're talking about. I especially like the comments that larger speakers are more impressive to look at, and people who load their houses with bass are into noise. Pmsl. Nice one!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Nov 11th, 2012, 11:44 AM
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Hey Forcey, you need to understand that people have different
views & opinions to yourself and try not to get so wound up
when people offer a different opinion to yours.
You blamed it on drink the first time!

If people can here a difference between mains leads, speaker cables,
RCA leads or CD players.....good for them....if you can't, well everybody's hearing is different.

As for 'willy waving', oh dear, we are talking about car audio here!
I wouldn't have accused you of 'wiily waving' about your system on the AV forum you posted on.
Even if you do brag about spending £20k on speakers.
Why?, because it's on an AV forum....you discuss AV!!!!!
I didn't mention the value of my car system at all, i just said it sounded great.


As i used to say to customers in the past, if you can't hear the difference
between two items, CD player, Amp or whatever then buy the cheaper one.

However, what do you say to a customer who can hear the difference?

Call them a liar?!......great customer service!

Last edited by spikeyadrian; Nov 12th, 2012 at 02:15 PM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Nov 14th, 2012, 12:07 AM
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Okay i Got all my speakers replaced without adding an AMP ( front/rear speakers and tweeter) still connected to the Stock headunit
And i must say, woooooww!! Im impressed! The Sound is so Nice and clear, definetely my Best buy ever, when talking Car speakers. Not even my 2000£ bose system at home Can dó it.
I have spendt 350£ ón the speakers witch is from the brand rainbow and they Are totally worh it
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