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Low Oil Pressure - Filter Debris in Oil System??!!

27K views 5 replies 4 participants last post by  Lloyd Barnes 
#1 ·
Hi, I am a new member. In fact I've never really done a thread or participated in an on-line forum - so I'm really new. I work for an auto manufacturer (not MINI or BMW) but managed to fall in love with the Mini (all of them really) at an Auto Show a few years ago. I go to the auto shows every year, usually once with the kids, and once with my husband. We love looking at all the cars, the new technology.. I am a stickler for design and the aesthetic of all things - from clothing, furniture, laptops, phones, to housewares, and yes my car. I have to love it - how it looks both inside and out, how it feels, how it drives. It has to speak to me and sadly the cars built by the company I work for don't ignite a sense of passion or lust (can you feel lust for a Mini? I do..). So I am wildly popular as you can imagine, driving a MINI but working for another auto manufacturer. I take a lot of teasing, a fair amount of harassment and some complete aggression for choosing to drive a car i LOVE that isn't built by the company I work for. I always make myself feel better by saying I work for them, i didn't sell my soul to them. Let's face it - they fire workers by the boatload full if that is what suits them. Why can't I drive a car I love and can afford (the gas for) if I love the car? I even get harassed when I cross the border from the US to Canada by the customs officers... But unfortunately, that is not what motivated me to join my very first on-line forum.

I'm writing because I have a 2010 Clubman, put into service in March 2011. I have had 2 oil changes, my last at 30,700 KM. Last Friday (1 week ago) my car started hesitating when I would decelerate come to a light or stop sign (that was in the morning). After work, on the way home the oil light came on (first time ever). I drove my son home and turned straight around to try to find a garage that was open to take a look as I just started a new position at work, and had to be in by 7:30 am the next day. Took it to a large chain, reputable service garage that has done many oil changes for us on different types of vehicles. They did a change at my insistence (even had to courier in the oil filter part from their warehouse which added another 30 minutes and $$ to the service). They advised after that the engine timing was still off and the oil light was still on. The oil light went out on the way home... (I live about 7 minutes away).

My husband drove it to work the next day (he also works in the US) and the oil light and engine light came on. He took it straight to the closest mini dealer which was about 20 miles from his office and dropped it off. They ran tests and found misfire faults. The repair order says they found a leak, they replaced a gasket, a clamp, repaired oil pressure issue, deleted faults. Test drove and engine light did not come back on. When checking the oil pressure they found the non-return valve rubber o-ring (that is all it says) and then replaced full flow oil filter assembly and necessary gaskets. They said the oil pressure was at 3 bars instead of 5 when i called to see if it would be ready for pickup. they were going to run more tests so kept it over the weekend. They ran some tests Tuesday They removed the oil filter cap and installed pressure gauge. The oil filter housing was receiving 5 bars. Reinstalled oil filter cap. Removed pressure sensor and hooked up gauge. The gauge was reading 0 bars. Removed the non-return check valve on the exhaust side and found DEBRIS COVERING THE CHECK BALL. Removed exhaust vanos solenoid and found DEBRIS ON THE SCREEN. Cleaned check valve and vanos solenoid. Applied air pressure to the oil filter switch orifice to push the debris out of the vanos orifice. Installed vanos and applied air to push the remaining debris out the non-return check valve hole. The repeated the same steps on the intake side. States engine is now seeing 5 bars at the oil pressure switch. Test drove vehicle. The oil light did not come back on. States Oil Light MAY COME BACK ON. (In addition to this they found water pump was leaking, replaced it and topped off with coolant and pressure tested the system.) Paid $400.00 (CAD) for the work having to do with the debris in system. They said there was no damage to the engine, that it was very clean, no signs of any wear related to lack of maintenance, and that they could tell I had done my oil changes.

They then advised I should REPLACE THE ENGINE AT A COST OF $9,500, and that it would not be covered under warranty because the work was done at a non-Mini Dealership. They said the burden of proof was on me to show the independent shops that did my oil changes had not used a cheap oil filter, the wrong oil filter, didn't replace the oil filter even though the paperwork says it did (lied to me), or had done the oil change correctly. This is due to finding debris, which they believe to be oil filter paper, in the oil system/lines.

My husband asked the service manager what he would do if it was his vehicle, and his $9K. He said he'd drive it. He said it is driving fine now and it may drive fine for a day, 6 months or years. He said the concern is that more debris COULD BE in the system and get dislodged at any time which could cause a drop in oil pressure again, or worst case, could cause the engine to seize should some get into the bearings. I called my husband before he picked up the car, and said do not drive it (we will tow) if the dealer advises not to. This was to ensure no damage to the engine, and to ensure we don't do anything that could void warranty. My husband asked explicitly. The service manager told my husband the car was fine to drive back to Canada - 35 miles door to door, and that the oil pressure and light were normal at this time. He did advise we keep it off the highways until we had more confidence in what was going on...

When my husband got home i read through the entire work order and service notes in detail (as I am a details person). All seemed fine until I got to the very last line on page three of the service repair which states "Advised client may need an engine or a disassemble of engine to clean debris. VEHICLE IS UNSAFE TO DRIVE." My concern is he never told me or my husband the vehicle is unsafe to drive. He said the oil light was off, oil pressure normal, and it was OK to drive home. He said to pull over if the engine or oil light came back on. He also said there could be a problem in the future. My concerns are many.. I am being asked to replace a 2 year old engine at my cost, I am told the car is OK to drive but report says the complete opposite. I am concerned that the mini service/dealer telling us one thing and putting something completely different on the service repair order could void our warranty, putting us at further financial risk.

I am looking for advice on next steps. I want to make sure the car is safe to drive, that I don't void the warranty, what to do about the debris found. I was planning to take to the Canadian Dealer to have it checked and serviced again.. Even though I've already spent $100 for an Oil Change, and $400.00 for the cleaning of the oil lines in the last week. Anyone ever heard of anything like this (filter paper getting into the oil lines)? Any known issues with oil filters falling apart and getting into the oil lines/system? Is this really something I have to replace the engine for, and is it really my cost? Any suggestions on how to move forward would be greatly appreciated.

I guess this book makes up for the fact i have never posted anything to a forum before. I'm hoping I don't get yelled at for being a complete NOOB.
 
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#2 ·
yes, i have heard of non-mini branded filters failing and causing the problem you have

they usually are used at "chain" quicky oil change stores or sold at "chain" auto parts stores

i tend to agree with the dealer, short of an engine teardown, there is no way to know if there is more of the filter in the engine and if an oil passage gets blocked either major engine damage or seizure is possible

where did you have the previous oil/filter changes done?

scott
 
#3 ·
Unfortunately, BMW/MINI won't accept responsibility because the work was done elsewhere using non BMW/ MINI parts. It would have been better in hindsight to have had a conversation with MINI explaining the situation. They possibly would have suggested you take it back to where the work was carried out. At that point, an independent professional could have inspected the car and provided a written report about the failure and its cause.

The place where you had the work carried out would, I think, be reluctant to accept responsibility now that MINI has already attempted a repair and they would say that it something MINI had done.

Had the filter failed after it had been fitted by a MINI dealer and was a genuine OEM part, I can't see them not covering the cost.

Everyone wants to save money. We all have a choice to make. Either pay through the nose and have the car fully serviced by a MINI dealer, knowing that your car is serviced according to their schedules and using genuine parts or take it to a non BMW/MINI dealer and run the risk of a problem should it all go Peter Tong!
 
#4 ·
They are just covering themselves. The pump, then the filter are the first two stages of your oiling system. Sounds as if with luck the debris was the filter itself failing, and the filter caught the debris. Assuming none got any further, ie into the engines oil galleries, then job done.

The problem is, neither you nor they can say this for sure. The only 100% definite way to know is to pull the motor, tear it down and clean it all out.

Some things you can check. In all this time has he engine started making tapping or rattling noises? This would be a sign that oil pressure was down. Change the oil again and the filter. Inspect the used oil and the filter. Any signs of further debris? If both are fine you are 90% certain to be ok.

As for needing a new engine... What???? complete garbage. Either run the car and see what happens (I would) or find a garage that actually knows how to strip and rebuild an engine if you don't mind spending $1-2,000 for the labour on the off chance. Even if the worst happens and you lose oil pressure, then don't stop & seize the motor, all a decent garage will do is strip it and rebuild it. You would need new bearings ($150), maybe a crank regrind, ($250) but $9,000 for a new engine simply translates to "we don't know how to rebuild an engine". These things are not throw away service parts for goodness sake!!

Good luck. :)

BTW, I'm an old school time served mechanic. Stuff like dealerships advising new engines in circumstances like these makes me mad :)
 
#5 ·
Thank you for your response. The engine has never made tapping noises but it had started to hesitate when i decelerated a day or two leading up to the oil light coming on. We decided to run the car and see how it goes. It has been fine since taking it back from the dealer. No oil light, running very smoothly. I had the oil changed last week - once at the independent, and then this past Monday at the dealer.. I was thinkig of changing it again in June at the dealer and doing one of the service intervals (assuming no further issues with the oil light or timing/hesitation when I slow down before then). I did find out the dealer replaced a number of parts under the warranty, including a "broken spring" that is part of the filter? So if this was broken - wouldn't that also cause my oil pressure to drop? And.. if the filter was not fitting properly due to the broken spring, could this have led to some filter paper getting into the oil lines? Finally.. how did the spring break? Can they simply break while the car is operating, or do they break because someone doing an oil chane messed it up? The dealer didn't seem at all interested in discussing the replaced spring with me. Any known issues wiht the spring breaking?

Driving with my fingers and toes crossed!
 
#6 ·
I thought it was only the very early minis that used a spring/cage arrangement inside the filter to maintain its shape under load. However not sure on that.

If you've never heard any rattling then its doubtful the oil pressure has ever dropped far enough to cause any engine damage.

Keep driving it and as time passes your toes will uncross :)
 
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